Apr 7, 2025
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;42;27
Unknown
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people
together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight
employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the
mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host,
Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by retired 12
Sergeant Major of the Army Jack Tilley. After serving 36 years in
the US Army from 1966 to 2004, with a two year break in between
Saar Major till, he shares invaluable insights into how his
military service shaped his life, allowed him to care for others
and inspired his ongoing mission of service through business and
nonprofit organizations.
00;00;43;00 - 00;01;03;01
Unknown
He emphasizes the importance of bringing people together, and
discusses his deep passion for addressing one of our community's
most pressing challenges mental health. Sergeant Major Tilley
shares a heartfelt story about the power of supporting one another
and the impact of collective action and the role hope plays in
driving meaningful change. From stories that bring smiles to
discussions on the traits of effective leaders.
00;01;03;07 - 00;01;21;06
Unknown
The value of teamwork and the importance of planning and
transition. It was an honor to hear from Sergeant Major Tilley. It
is a rare opportunity to hear experiences of history through a
personal perspective, and we're grateful for the time, Sergeant
Major Tilley shared with us. We have all we need to become the
person we want to be. Let's remember how to connect with others
with sincerity and genuine intent.
00;01;21;07 - 00;01;35;14
Unknown
As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope
you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in on your
buddies and family Sergeant Major till these contact details are in
the podcast description, and you can always find me on
LinkedIn.
00;01;35;16 - 00;01;59;02
Unknown
SA major. How are you? Hey! I'm so pumped up here today. I'm
excited. Yeah. For all those out there listening, we we almost
forgot to hit record. We were going on a good path. Just what we
were talking about already. So both of us enthusiastic about being
here in the presence of each other to talk about some of the some
of the things that are important today and always have been and
kind of being transformative and thinking about the future and what
we can do to work together.
00;01;59;05 - 00;02;16;07
Unknown
So, so our major, you, 30 plus years in the service and you just
got done talking about why you join, if you wouldn't mind just
going back and rehashing that? Sure. Absolutely. Well, you know, I
spent 36 years in the service. People say. They say over 30 years.
No, no, I want to make sure you're missing 36 years of service.
00;02;16;09 - 00;02;34;24
Unknown
Yeah, I, yeah, I, I wasn't planning on joining the military. In
fact, I was, I always tell people I was a terrible kid. I had no
direction in life. And I remember when I. When I graduate, I. And I
did pretty good. I graduated 117, but I was sitting on the Columbia
River and we was all talking about, you know, different things.
00;02;34;24 - 00;02;56;16
Unknown
And I was drinking the Olympia Beer Day and somebody said, hey,
what are you going to do with your life? I said, well, I don't
know. And the guy says, hey, you want to go to college? And I said,
hey, guys like me don't go to college. Low self-esteem. Nothing's
going right. No direction of life. And then the next guy that it
was, I think it was Prentiss Boykin, unfortunately got killed in
Vietnam.
00;02;56;16 - 00;03;12;21
Unknown
But he said, let's join the military. And I said, sure. Why not? I
had no idea that was fighting a war. And so I went basic. I did
jump school. And then six months from joining the military, I was,
fighting in the streets of, of Vietnam. And in fact, I was in the
Tet Offensive in 68.
00;03;12;21 - 00;03;31;15
Unknown
That's another story back, back a long time ago. But the big, big
change in my life real quick. Oh, I bet. And quick to when we had
first talked on your next mission podcast with when you and I were
talking about that, you had talked about getting in and then you
had gone to Vietnam and you'd come back and you'd gotten out for a
short stint.
00;03;31;19 - 00;03;55;01
Unknown
What was the decision behind that? Well, a couple of things. One is
that, I had a commander that really made me mad, angry, and
sometimes in life you let people affect your performance. You know,
you said, well, despite you, I'm going to quit this job. Dumbest
decision I ever, ever made. So I had a commander that, I didn't
like, and I thought I could never deal with a guys like, in the
military.
00;03;55;02 - 00;04;15;14
Unknown
I said, that's it. I got out and I stayed out about two years, and
when I was out, I never really fit in. I mean, I always missed the
military. I had a great time in the military. Military was good to
me. And so I stayed out about two years and, and I used in fact, I
actually drew up the I drove up to Fort Lewis one time on, I was
going to, Seattle.
00;04;15;14 - 00;04;34;12
Unknown
So I stopped at Fort Lewis and watched these guys train and and do
all that stuff, and, you know, and I went back home and I told my
wife, I said, jeez. You know, I wouldn't mind going back in
service. I mean, it was good for me. And so I went and seen a
recruiter and he said, hey, look, you know, you can come back any
time you want to do that.
00;04;34;16 - 00;04;53;28
Unknown
As a staff sergeant, I got to be a staff sergeant about two and a
half years in the military. And so I talked to him, and I left at
about, I think it was about 2 or 3 weeks later, he called me on the
phone. He said, hey, look, if you come back and within the next 30
days or when you are, if you decide to come back after that, you'll
come back in as he want.
00;04;54;00 - 00;05;09;20
Unknown
I said, what he said the policy. I said, what do you mean to say
right now? You can come back to your, you know, the rank you got
lose all your time of grade. But, but if you wait that one month,
you come back as a private. I'll start all over again. I said,
okay, and about three days later, I was down there at the
recruiting station.
00;05;09;26 - 00;05;32;23
Unknown
I went over to maps, you know, signed back and did all the testing
in and then, you know, got my date to go back into the military. So
I came back in. Is this I gotta tell you one funny story. So I got
to Fort Jackson, and, and I just fell in with all the privates. And
so we're March around doing all the stuff, and then with the,
clothing, got my clothing issues, got my uniforms and all that
stuff.
00;05;32;23 - 00;05;52;02
Unknown
And I was a staff sergeant and a rank on. And so I think it was
right after I got my, on my, fatigues at the time, I, first started
calling. It's our winner. Is is Tilley. I see us first. Are aren't
you a staff sergeant? I said, yeah, he said, then put your rank on.
Put the rank up there.
00;05;52;02 - 00;06;10;14
Unknown
I said, okay, so I put my rank on, fell back into the formation and
there's one private looked at me, says, how did you get to be a
staff? Well, that drill sergeant said I was marching real good. And
so he promoted. Yeah. Oh yeah. But I had a great time there. So
yeah, it's good one. The,
00;06;10;16 - 00;06;27;03
Unknown
Well, I have to believe because I, when I went through basic not to
reminisce too much about this stuff because it's not where we're
going. But there was a, there was a, a man that came in, he was a
specialist, and we didn't understand it. And we we kind of figured
it out later on how to how to use that.
00;06;27;03 - 00;06;53;29
Unknown
So did that how did that affect how everybody else was learning
around you at that point? Well, it, you know, I tell you, I didn't
have much to do with him. You know, I marched from point A to point
B and process. And so they didn't really and I started pulling, CQ
at the time, but I didn't they asked me a lot of questions, and I
tried to do all I could to help as much as I could, but, you know,
that was, you know, you've seen in the first week or so, I think it
was a week and a half that you stayed there and then you process
out.
00;06;54;06 - 00;07;14;09
Unknown
So not, not really, not a whole lot. Yeah. For that time, I didn't
have a lot, a lot of interaction with those guys. Okay. Yeah. I was
just curious that that kind of had some, some connection later down
the road. On how rank helps or hurts learning or, you know, this is
probably no one's going to believe me.
00;07;14;10 - 00;07;36;13
Unknown
I was never worried about being promoted. I just thought, you are
what you are. And everybody, I always tell people you everybody
climbs a ladder, and you just get off at different rings in the
ladder. And, if I got out of the Army's a staff sergeant, I'd be.
I've been content if I got out of the Army as a sergeant first
class, I'd have been content, but I never really,
00;07;36;15 - 00;07;59;14
Unknown
I just always wanted to do my job and work as hard as I could with
the people around. You know, I told people that before, and they
probably saying that now. That's baloney. You probably a politician
or something. I'm the farthest thing away from a politician. But I
just always wanted to work hard because the army, the army, quite
frankly, changed my life and allowed me to grow up and develop and
see so many things and so many different people I've met throughout
my life.
00;07;59;14 - 00;08;15;10
Unknown
I, I always used, I told people, even I wrote a book, but in the
book I said I went from Vietnam. When I went to Vietnam, I went
from 18 to 55. And I grew that much during during war. And, so, you
know, the Army was good to me, and I just wanted to do the best I
could.
00;08;15;11 - 00;08;32;00
Unknown
In fact, we can talk about this later. I never wanted to be the
sergeant. I did the Army. I just wanted to be. I was going to get
out work for USA because I was working on finding me a job right
there, but, yeah, I never, I think people that, people are that,
you know, you everybody wants to be promoted.
00;08;32;00 - 00;08;58;16
Unknown
And I understand that too. But I think sometimes people get so, so
motivated about, hey, I want to move to the next level that they're
not very good at the level they're at, if that makes sense, because
I'm concerned about, hey, I want to be the boss. Well, to be the
boss or to be in charge, you got to do your job the you know better
than anybody else, or work with the team and show people that you
can develop and motivate and get people to do the best they can
within their organization.
00;08;58;18 - 00;09;18;21
Unknown
And the ones that the people at throughout my military and in
civilian life, the one the people that I run into that are more
concerned about promotions or advancement aren't necessarily good
leaders. I think sometimes. So you mentioned that and I just I
hadn't planned on this. It spurred a thought in my head on focus,
focusing on the present.
00;09;18;21 - 00;09;43;20
Unknown
Become the master of your craft, what you're doing now and then,
things will take care of themselves is kind of how I'm
oversimplifying what you're saying. That's exactly what I mean.
Just to stay focused in your life, I, I've talked to a lot of
people, about this. Stay in your lane of responsibility. And as you
get, as you move up in whatever organization is, your lane will
open up a little bit more, you'll have more responsibility, and you
can help more people.
00;09;43;22 - 00;10;03;28
Unknown
But the key to success in, any job that you're doing is people. How
do you help the people that are around you? How do you make how do
you make them successful? My job as a as a leader or a small
business owner or even just outside the army? It's not about me.
It's about how do I make the people that I'm working with more
successful so they can take my job?
00;10;04;01 - 00;10;22;23
Unknown
You know, they sort of push me out, you know? So it's about it's
about people and their families and and treating them with dignity,
respect and, and just getting the best at them. And another thing
I, I like the dog. You see this. But the other thing is how do you
motivate people that are around you to get the best out of
them?
00;10;22;26 - 00;10;42;08
Unknown
You know what? Everybody is motivated by something different. You
know, some people you can pat on the back, some people got a kick
in the backside. But how do you get the best out of those people?
And and as a leader, you've got to look at those people, see where
they fit. You know, where, you know, I may not be the best
mechanic, but I'm a good cook, you know what I mean?
00;10;42;08 - 00;11;07;08
Unknown
I might not be the best salesman, but I'm the best. Whatever. But
you can find out where they fit in in life and and, you know, sort
of pat them on the back and push them up and, and stand them up and
make them feel good about yourself. No, I like that. And thank you
for that because you're however however that came to you, it's
still how it is today for many of us, if not all of us, that they
they kind of split up to two different types of people.
00;11;07;08 - 00;11;33;26
Unknown
You got some that believe that and understand that to be for what
it is. And they they wholeheartedly invested in that mindset of
understanding that so much that they it's they embody it. And then
you have ones that have more of a theoretical understanding on what
that means. And then it's awkward. Sometimes it's clumsy as a
leader to be able to try to do those things, which is that
reciprocating lesson that's learned is I'm learning how to become a
good leader by having been put in a position to lead you.
00;11;33;28 - 00;11;51;16
Unknown
And so we're going to make mistakes together, and then we're going
to just kind of reciprocate that effort to to learn. Either way.
How does that how does that look in today's world when we're
thinking about the first thing that you had mentioned, we're we're
conditioned to focus on where we are so we can be mission ready,
paying attention to what's going on.
00;11;51;18 - 00;12;12;19
Unknown
But then as we get near transition and I'm we're going to jump
around a little bit, we're going to when we get near near
transition, we still embody that same mindset. We're not looking
ahead to prepare for that next step, which is the hardest. Yeah.
Well the problem is and I'm glad you're talking about transition.
The problem in transition is, is you don't want to pull away.
00;12;12;21 - 00;12;26;05
Unknown
You want to keep doing your job. And you say, man, they can't they
can't do that job without me. And I've got to be there every day.
In reality, that you're going to, you know, a lot of I can't
remember the actual number, you know, a couple hundred thousand, I
guess, get out of the military every year.
00;12;26;08 - 00;12;42;03
Unknown
But, what you've got to do is you you need to start that transition
process about two years out. And I think what happens is people
don't do that. So what do you do in that two years out? Well,
finish up your degree. If you got an associate's get a bachelors.
If you got a bachelors, get a master's.
00;12;42;08 - 00;13;04;02
Unknown
So focus on all that stuff and make sure that if you have any
bills, pay all your bills, put money aside, know where you want to
live, you know, start, have a good resume. There's so many things
that you ought to do. I think the people that, that don't
transition very well is the ones that wait until the last 30 days
or the last 60 days, to get out of the service.
00;13;04;02 - 00;13;24;03
Unknown
And they're scrambling, don't know what they're going to do, and
they're confused. And I'm going to say one more thing, too, is, is
that, I've talked a lot about on my show, on a podcast about the
fact that we have about 200,000 people incarcerated that are
veterans, and about 86,000 are homeless, but more than 125,000 and
probably that number is a little larger now.
00;13;24;06 - 00;13;47;14
Unknown
But more than 125,000 and taken a life by suicide. And you go back
and start thinking about transition. Why do they do those kind of
things? It's because they don't fit back into society and they're
struggling and there's nobody to talk to. And, for the people a
little less than a day, there's a lot of veterans out there that,
that are your friend or your brother or your sister that'll listen
to you and try to help you out as much as you can.
00;13;47;14 - 00;14;08;15
Unknown
So talk to them. You're not alone. Everybody goes through
struggles. You, me and everybody else. Reach out to somebody and
talk to them about whatever those issues are. Special on that
transition. And then the last thing I just say about transition, I,
I was very lucky because I retired as a sergeant major of the Army.
And so I know there's a lot of doors open for me that there may not
be open for a lot of people.
00;14;08;16 - 00;14;35;26
Unknown
I understand that because I'm certainly not going to be anybody
else. But the fact of the matter is, I used to look for companies
that had, leadership that are veterans, maybe an owner of a company
or an a senior leadership within that organization. And if you can
find those, even Google those on the, on the website, say, you
know, veteran owned companies or people who had a veteran lead or
whatever, reach out to those guys and, and make sure you reach out
and tell them about your military service and charm you.
00;14;35;26 - 00;14;56;07
Unknown
214 and have a resume and and, and they'll help you out as much as
they can. But you may not. Again, going back to where you fit, you
may not be a good fit for that organization, but I guarantee you
they'll probably help you go somewhere else. I'm going to kind of
just unload the list of things in my head at this point that
hopefully we can touch on is, how do you determine the fit?
00;14;56;09 - 00;15;11;20
Unknown
A lot of the struggle is is deciding that what I did is what I need
to do in the future. And we we know differently. We know that you
don't have to do that. You can go ahead and figure out how to do
something different, what you want to do. It's an opportunity to
recreate who you want to be, what you want to do.
00;15;11;22 - 00;15;40;16
Unknown
And then you talked about big picture early on in the conversation.
You're talking about those that can understand the big picture.
That's an acquired skill set that is done through connecting with
others by having the mentors, which we talked about before. So on
those two topics themselves, when you're saying two years out, how
do you learn about what you yourself is going to need if if you
think that you don't need it, hopefully that translates.
00;15;40;19 - 00;15;56;23
Unknown
No, no. I said, well, I think the key to success, I think that,
yeah, but we talked about a minute ago, we talked about before too,
is you gotta have a mentor. So I tell you, I always said you need
to have 2 or 3 mentors. So I have somebody that's already been in
the service that got out of the service that you can reach out and
talk to about.
00;15;56;23 - 00;16;18;06
Unknown
Hey, look, I'm thinking about doing this or I'm thinking to do that
and just sort of talk about those kind of things, before you get
out of the service. But. And then the other thing I do is, I talk
to my wife a lot. I've been married. I'm married a long time
anyway. But I talk to my wife about what we need to do as a family
because, you know, you had a team in the military of all these
people around you.
00;16;18;06 - 00;16;35;13
Unknown
But when you get out of the team that you have is your family to.
And you got to make sure they're involved in that discussion. And
then the other thing is, is, a lot of people set expectation
expectations, I think just a little bit too, you know, they want to
get out, make, 2 or $300,000.
00;16;35;15 - 00;16;53;19
Unknown
Again, it goes back to where do you fit in? How do you grow? How do
you develop? How are you preparing yourself for success? Just
because you, as a senior NCO in the Army or in the military, Navy,
Marine Corps, whatever. But, senior is your senior officer doesn't
mean that you're going to have the ideal job when you get out of
the military.
00;16;53;23 - 00;17;14;20
Unknown
You have to go back and and prove yourself again that you have
those qualifications. So, yeah, it's there's a it's it's, because
of what the military teaches you, you have a lot of leadership, a
lot of a lot of things that you can share with any organization. So
I think that's a that's a strength for, all the people that served
in the military.
00;17;14;22 - 00;17;40;14
Unknown
Yeah. Thanks for that. And congratulations. Is it 58 years? 55. It
was five years this year. But who's counting? The 709 58.
Congratulation. You may be out of here now. You know, I, I tell you
what, I tell people this all the time, too. Is that, nobody is
successful by themselves. I have came home so many times and told
my wife, you know, I can't believe what this guy did today.
00;17;40;17 - 00;18;03;09
Unknown
And she'd say, well, Jack, I thought you did that once. And I'd
say, well, wait a minute, that was different. Well, the answer is
you need somebody that gives you checks and balances. You know, you
get. I used to tell people all the time that every time you're
promoted, your head swells a little bit, you know, in your head
gets and you think you're smarter and smarter and smarter.
00;18;03;12 - 00;18;19;19
Unknown
And the answer is you're no different than you was yesterday. You
just got a different job. I get it. I'll tell you another funny
story. I was, down at Fort Knox when I was, competing for to start
my the Army and I. And I was a Centcom sergeant major, so I was
working at a four star level there.
00;18;19;22 - 00;18;38;18
Unknown
And, I went into this conference, and they had my seat all the way
down at the end of the table. Not you, I don't care. And so I bring
up, talking points and things I think you ought to do is the
armored community and that sort of. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's good.
Yeah. That's good. That just, you know, that sort of was nice to me
and all that stuff.
00;18;38;20 - 00;18;56;14
Unknown
Well, that evening they announced that I was a sergeant major in
the Army, and I was the next election to start major. So the next
day I came to the conference. My chair was right dead in the
center. And everything I said was the smartest guy in the world.
The answer was I hadn't changed from yesterday. All right.
00;18;56;19 - 00;19;13;03
Unknown
So, the if you want to be a good leader, be a good listener and be
a good communicator and be able to say, hey, I was wrong about this
is probably a better way to do it. And when somebody comes up with
a good idea and it's not your idea, give him credit for. Hey,
that's a great idea.
00;19;13;03 - 00;19;31;22
Unknown
Let's do that. She's okay. Let's go. Let's move out. Don't be
afraid. I mean, again, we're successful because all the people
around us, you know, use their brains, you know, use their ideas in
your thought. And if you do that, then you'll grow as a team and
you'll develop, and it'll get better and better and better and
better all the way through there.
00;19;31;22 - 00;19;50;13
Unknown
So I've always I was, when I first got to be to start, maybe
there's two things I really wanted to work on real quickly. One
was, I wanted to bring all senior in sales to one location, at down
at Fort Bliss. And I said, hey, we're going to have a conference
are meeting, and somebody says, who's going to pay for it?
00;19;50;13 - 00;20;12;17
Unknown
I said, well, I don't care. And then the second thing I want to do
is start a NCO and soldier of the year program for the United
States Army, for the Army bring Army. And I was able to accomplish
that. The first year or so in the Army. But, I put all those senior
and chosen together in one location, and it was just, one star and
above, but all in one location.
00;20;12;17 - 00;20;30;15
Unknown
And they asked a guard reserve and all the rest of them, and I did
that. So, so we could build a team, a stronger team. And we we did
a golf ID event. We went out to dinner and we did. We got stronger
and stronger as we went along and we really worked with each other.
So I thought it it and they're still doing that now or continuing
to do it.
00;20;30;15 - 00;20;58;22
Unknown
So I think it builds a stronger team anyway. It does. And it was
obviously I think you and I are similar in that sense. The value of
bringing people together is sometimes uncomfortable. It may be,
when when you are indicated like what you said, if you find
yourself without saying it, but doing it is to be the most humble
person in the room where you can hear feedback and you can see that
other people have great ideas and you're willing to share that
credit or give that credit instead of taking it, then it becomes
simpler.
00;20;58;27 - 00;21;17;17
Unknown
The further the further you get away from actually have to decide
or do things, because the team around you is is activating its
where everything gets set as the example of what you want to
achieve as a leader, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah. No I'm sorry. The
I think the other thing is that they have to trust you.
00;21;17;19 - 00;21;30;19
Unknown
If they don't trust you, then they're not going to support you. And
they got to believe that, you know, if I say something as a leader,
if I say something, I'm going to do it. If I say, hey, I'm going to
be here at 8:00, a little small thing about 8:00, I'm going to be
there at 750, probably.
00;21;30;21 - 00;21;49;26
Unknown
Right? Yeah. But if you put the word out, if you say something, do
it. And if you can't do it, go back and tell them, hey, look, I
tried to do this, I couldn't accomplishment, and this is the reason
why we can go with a different route. But here's where I am right
now. And I think a lot of people, just listen.
00;21;50;03 - 00;22;03;05
Unknown
Yeah, I got it and then move out. I used to, when I used to travel,
I used to have a couple of trip coordinators. They'd be with you
and they'd take notes. Everything that anybody put out. And when we
got back, I'd say, okay, what's, you know, what's what do we have
to do? What do we have to accomplish?
00;22;03;12 - 00;22;22;04
Unknown
And I'll be damned, they they better get every one of those
accomplished. At least go back and say, look, we're working on this
is where we're at. Here's what we're going to do. And somebody
called, the officer said, I have a problem this summer. I wouldn't
just drop it. I'd get them to the right location and then, write it
down, somebody to go back, say, hey, if we accomplish this, you
know what?
00;22;22;04 - 00;22;42;01
Unknown
It's finished. Come back and tell me what's going on. And I think a
lot of times somebody will have an issue and they'll put it out
there and they'll just sort of say, okay, that's your issue. I'm
done. You're not done. You're not done until it's accomplished.
Even though you gave it to somebody else. Reminds me of the story
that I think I shared with you because of what you just said.
00;22;42;08 - 00;23;01;06
Unknown
You know, you're going to if you're going to be the good listener
and you're going to take in the input, you better act on it. So
they see that it's actually, so in the early early 90s, I was in
Korea and I was doing the, the soldier of the quarter, soldiers of
the month, been going all the way up to the, you know, company,
battalion, brigade, so on and so forth.
00;23;01;06 - 00;23;21;19
Unknown
While I earned, earned a spot to have dinner with Sergeant Major,
Army kid. Oh, yeah. You get squared away guy. Yeah. So it and, you
know, I was allowed to bring two soldiers with me. So I found, you
know, the two that that I wanted to bring with me. And they shut
down the dining facility after hours where it was, me sergeant made
an Army kid.
00;23;21;26 - 00;23;43;13
Unknown
So major mixology and, I was just playing golf with him. Great. Go
away. Yeah, just play golf for the last week, I was. It's amazing.
I'll. I'll send you a picture if you'll take it. I'll send you a
picture of us together. Back in 1999. Sure. Yeah, that'd be great.
So we were sitting there and he asked the question, you know, so
what?
00;23;43;16 - 00;24;01;09
Unknown
What can I do for you? Some along the lines. What can I do for you?
Or, you know, what's on your mind? Something like that. And the
short story is, you know, the camp that we were on had a real
small, fitness facility. Jim had 1 or 2 things that had the
universal weights, you know, the stuff that you saw in high school
back in those days.
00;24;01;09 - 00;24;17;27
Unknown
Well, I asked, you have free weights if we can get some dumbbells,
that would be great. And I compared it to the camp that was next to
us, who's obviously had more budget, whatever. So he listen, I gave
the example and I'm not going to tell you what the example is
because I don't want to embarrass myself. But, you know, he they
were confused.
00;24;17;27 - 00;24;33;24
Unknown
They scoffed at it. I could tell now. I could tell what they were.
What they heard was ridiculous. But the next day, the lieutenant
or, XO come over and or the platoon leader came over and and called
me out of formation. So I came over to him, says, let's go. Getting
the Humvees is, where are we going, sir?
00;24;33;24 - 00;24;51;03
Unknown
And he says, we're going to get your weights. And he said it in
such a way that I, I didn't see it as the thing that I had hoped to
happen coming, come to fruition. So, so as we're driving, we're
going downtown Korea to try to find a place to buy the dumbbells.
And I asked him, I said, so how many we get?
00;24;51;03 - 00;25;11;10
Unknown
And he goes, well, we have $50. That's like, okay, all right. So we
ended up being able to afford one dumbbell, which we ended up
bringing back. And we kind of it didn't serve its purpose, but it
was the running joke as to, you know, careful what you say. Prepare
the UN, but also know that somebody worth their salt is going to
follow through on that commitment.
00;25;11;10 - 00;25;27;27
Unknown
So the thing that I learned is he felt he followed through well,
the thing about it, the other thing is, is take good notes. Could
have been when you go back to their ask those questions. Hey, last
time I was here, you had, this, this and this, and. Hey, what's the
status of that now? Yeah, the,
00;25;27;29 - 00;25;48;26
Unknown
Yeah, I used to follow that people to go wild. And how do you
remember that? Well, you know, we keep notes and stuff. So when I
come back, I'm going to make sure I ask those questions. So. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Sergeant major, I got to tell you funny story about him
when he was, he come to Germany when I was a division soccer major
and we hosted him, and, so we took him around and showed him the
division, did all that stuff.
00;25;48;26 - 00;26;08;29
Unknown
And so we got to, Graff and beer, gave him a briefing and all that
stuff. He's. He's really a great guy. And, so we got ready to go
that they had these green old German bus, vans. Most of the time
they wouldn't run very good. So I say, Sergeant Major, I'll see you
later. Got him in the van, closed the door, and drivers tried to
start the vehicle.
00;26;08;29 - 00;26;25;02
Unknown
I wouldn't start, so. Oh, I can't believe it. And so I said, hey,
guys, Sergeant major, don't worry about it. We'll get you. Go.
We'll push this van and get it going. So I had all the sergeant
major back there pushing and we started pushing. And I looked at my
left and there were Sergeant major. Can't push him wrong with
me.
00;26;25;04 - 00;26;43;00
Unknown
It's nice. And it started up. He jumped in. See you guys later,
Dick. So yeah, he's quite a guy. He's really a good guy. Yeah, it
was a good time. It's a good time. So since we're talking about it,
maybe some folks listening aren't as familiar, but what what is the
role? Or at least when you were disarming an army.
00;26;43;01 - 00;27;03;28
Unknown
What what was the role and and what what did it serve for the
community? Well, first of all, the sergeant, the army, it was the
voice of the noncommissioned officer corps. So I routinely
testified in front of Congress, usually once or twice a year. And
when Congress were to have issues or concerns about stuff, he'd
come down through my office and we'd, you know, check it out, see
what the issues so that's the first thing.
00;27;04;03 - 00;27;24;27
Unknown
And also inform the secretary of the Army, Secretary of Defense,
the chief of staff, the Army, the division staff or the, the
Pentagon staff there, or the Army staff about what's going on. And
I traveled all the time, and I traveled, I think it was 800,000
miles and three and a half years. And what I do is I go to all
these, installations and talk to not just senior NCO.
00;27;25;03 - 00;27;43;27
Unknown
It's all soldiers and take good notes and find out what the
concerns was within the army. And, that's what I did. I sort of
flowed information back and forth, you know, what's the issues? And
and it worked out pretty good. Biggest complaint is always the same
thing. It hadn't changed a day. The biggest complaint was
money.
00;27;43;29 - 00;28;04;25
Unknown
Oh. At the time, an E9 would make, I think, I think base pay for an
E9 was, $3,000 and $31 a month. That was his base pay. A captain
made more than him. So during my period of time, I started by the
Army. We went from, I think it was 3430 $400 to over $5,000, base
pay.
00;28;04;25 - 00;28;22;20
Unknown
So we got a pretty good chunk of rise. But it wasn't just them. We
had, a targeted pay from E4 or five, six, seven, 8 or 9. And what I
always thought was a buy went from 4 to 5. I should get 5 or 6.
Seven or dollars, pay a 6 to 7, same thing. And so we worked real
hard on pay and quality of life stuff.
00;28;22;20 - 00;28;50;19
Unknown
That was really my focus in the time you were in. I mean, that's a
significant timeline. So if we can talk about readiness and how
significant events changed the trajectory of our readiness. So you
were Saam rated Army from 2000 to 2004. So before before 2000, you
stepped into the role. And then what occurred during that timeline,
can you share with us the significance of what you now had to
undertake?
00;28;50;22 - 00;29;14;12
Unknown
Well, when I first got there, you know, I got into 2000, but, you
know, of course 911 happened. That was, you know, when the plane
hit the Pentagon and, we went to war. That was a, you know, one of
the biggest things that happened to me, in fact, in fact, I'll
never forget that day I was sitting in my office, and, David, Chad,
which was the public affairs called me, says, you got to turn on
the TV.
00;29;14;12 - 00;29;29;11
Unknown
And I did, and I turned to watch the, plane hit up in New York, and
I went out the office. I said, hey, look, this is not a mistake.
Something's going on. I had to go to Fort Meyer to speak to
somebody. And when I was going to Fort Myers and I finished
talking, I was coming down the hill.
00;29;29;11 - 00;29;51;25
Unknown
That plane actually hit. And then I went back over there, went back
into the Pentagon, made sure all the everybody was out of their
offices. And I went around to the front of the, of the building
where the plane had hit. And I went back in with General and
Austin. We sort of worked our way, to the, the wreckage there and
probably about 30 or 40ft or so.
00;29;51;25 - 00;30;12;23
Unknown
Smoke it. We couldn't go any farther because we want to see if we
can get anybody out. And then of course, there was mass confusion.
And then we we came back out and people were running everywhere.
Anyway, it was just a terrible day for our country. You know what
bothers me when I talk about 911? What bothers me is, is, how
quickly we forgot about what happened on that day.
00;30;12;25 - 00;30;34;20
Unknown
And, the lives are lost, not just, you know, Pennsylvania, New York
and the Pentagon, but it's, you know, for 3 or 4 days in a life,
we, the country, the country, I think, pulled together real close
with everybody. And we all wanted to help each other out. And we're
all Americans and all that stuff. And then after 3 or 4 days, we
all sort of went our separate ways again.
00;30;34;23 - 00;30;51;21
Unknown
And it was just again, it was just a tough time, not just 911, you
know, we got an award we're deploying, you know, a lot of stuff.
And so the rest of my time in the military is usually deployed in
and going and checking on troops and see how everybody was doing
over there. So I stay pretty active, like I said, traveled about 8
or 9000 miles.
00;30;51;21 - 00;31;21;28
Unknown
But it was a blast. Half of my time in Sergeant Major, I was a
little rough. Yeah, I can imagine. And thanks for your leadership
before, after and during. Of course, because it I think when I had
first met you, you know, it hit me because I, you know, after being
out for as long as I have there's a, there is a, a point to which
you, you feel disconnected on certain things, reminding you of what
you used to do and who used to do it with, and those types of
things.
00;31;21;28 - 00;31;51;07
Unknown
And the subtle reminder, especially generational. So in my era,
getting out in the 90s, you know, it's it becomes more challenging
to be more connected to where, where things are today and things
like that. And so it served as a subtle reminder of connection on
the level of difficulty of what you and many others had experienced
during that time line, but how it shifted the attention to to be
more prepared and, and then focus on the things that we had learned
through those last 15 to 20 years to transform and become the force
that we, we, we want to be.
00;31;51;08 - 00;32;15;23
Unknown
We need to be and then take it into transition. So as you've now
been out a couple of decades, taking that, taking that lesson in
those lessons and what you're doing now, let's let's talk about
that. On how how it drives you to continue to want to do what you
do. Well, the, well, I, I don't know, I, I love the Army.
00;32;15;23 - 00;32;40;28
Unknown
And I think, again, I said before the Army changed my life and
helped me so much. And it's all part of my family will always be
part of my family. And so I want to do all I can to help veterans
and families as much as I can till the day I die. And there's a lot
of people just out there struggling, and they just don't, sometimes
they sometimes they struggle and they don't know why, and they
don't know why they don't fit in.
00;32;41;00 - 00;32;58;05
Unknown
And, they don't know who to talk to about whatever the issues are.
So from my little perspective, you know, doing our podcast or doing
our hiring events or whatever, I just want to do all I can to help
the veteran community. And I said it already, we as a veteran
community, we need to pull together and put our arms together.
00;32;58;05 - 00;33;14;03
Unknown
Whether or not you spent three years or are 36 years in the
military, put our arms together and sort of talk to each other and
help each other out as much as we can, because I know I get it. I
tell people all the time, I'll help you with everything. You know,
everything, anything, anything I can help you with, I'll
certainly.
00;33;14;03 - 00;33;30;14
Unknown
I'll be out. Don't think I won't do it. Gives me a bunch of money.
I'll only give it to my grandkids and stuff. There. There's nothing
wrong with that money now, but, But I just. I just think we gotta
work together as a team, and I think we're missing the bullets
sometimes. I came back backing up here a little bit.
00;33;30;16 - 00;33;50;03
Unknown
I came back out of Vietnam, and I had anger issues for about 5 or 6
years where I struggled just fitting in. And it wouldn't take much
to do, to set me off about stuff. And so that was me. And I know
there's a lot of men and women that get out that just struggle and
just try to find the right space where they fit in.
00;33;50;03 - 00;34;14;07
Unknown
And, and I just sometimes I worry that we're just not doing enough,
but we're not doing enough because we won't pull together. We just
got to pull together a lot more. Yeah, and thanks for that. And
that. And you're right. And then when you look at some of the I
mean, the statistics help support, I guess putting something in a
perspective that allows us it's tangible, right?
00;34;14;07 - 00;34;36;01
Unknown
When we have a number and something hard to look at, it's the
intangible things that are very challenging, you know, with over
47,000 organizations focused on a military affiliated community,
what are your thoughts on how to bring people together when there's
so many choices out there for, I mean, how would a service member
that isn't doesn't have a mentor or hasn't thought about these
things?
00;34;36;01 - 00;34;58;16
Unknown
Maybe it's early career young enlisted junior junior officers,
whoever. How do we make a decision or determine where to go first?
With so many options? Yeah, that that really makes it tough. You
got to do what's right for you. However, I think, somebody like me
go to your next mission podcast on me, follow me on podcast, listen
to the podcast, do whatever.
00;34;58;18 - 00;35;14;13
Unknown
We're we're growing every day. We're growing. We probably get it.
We probably get 100 followers a week or something like that. But,
we're growing every day, and I guarantee you, if we can get. You
know, I've always said to everybody, if we can get a million or a
couple million people, that that'll follow us. Numbers count.
00;35;14;14 - 00;35;30;29
Unknown
People listen to numbers. And if you got those numbers, then you
can you can enforce a lot of stuff. That's what we got to do.
Whether or not you're fallen AUSA or NCUA or whatever organization
want to follow, that's fine. That's great. But we have to have one
spot, one sweet spot for all of us to pull together.
00;35;30;29 - 00;35;53;00
Unknown
I don't think we've I don't think we've found that sweet spot.
Yeah. You're right. And so you have the American Freedom
Foundation. Talk about that a little bit and then see if we can't
get you to that million followers. Yeah. Well we, we, we start off
by doing, we start off by doing concerts with me and Ted and, you
know, we did a concert for about ten years.
00;35;53;03 - 00;36;12;27
Unknown
Alan Jackson trace action. James out of Martina McBride. Lee and
and was able to give away about $13 million. You know what was
doing that? But all the concerts and stuff like that. But, I don't
know. I think there's just a lot of people that struggle, that just
I, I just don't I just don't want to pull together.
00;36;12;27 - 00;36;28;20
Unknown
I think they get out and they, they look at the bad stuff versus
the positive things in life. You've got to look at the good stuff.
Everybody's going to have a hiccup in life goes up and it comes
down. Everybody's going to have problems. Everybody's going to have
issues. But don't dwell on the it. Don't dwell on the bad
things.
00;36;28;21 - 00;36;50;22
Unknown
Well, you know, think about the positive things and keep a positive
attitude. I think as long as you do that, you certainly should be
okay. I hope he is okay anyway. Yeah. Hope. Hope. Give people hope.
Yeah. That being said, anything to close it out. So our amazing.
Well, the, I think I told you on the I have to tell you about my
son Brian, I think I did.
00;36;50;22 - 00;37;11;14
Unknown
I told you, should I tell you about Brian? Briefly. But, if you
could. Well, I tell you, I, I talk about, well, I, I don't think
there's, I don't think there's a person I know that has went to war
that doesn't get closer to God. And every time somebody struggles,
or something's gone wrong, they get the, you know, they say a
prayer.
00;37;11;14 - 00;37;32;19
Unknown
And I'm no different than anybody else, you know, probably about
the most religious person in the world. But I'll tell you a story,
something to happen to me. I, I had my oldest son had pneumococcus
meningitis, left him, temporarily blind, temporarily deaf, 20 to 30
convulsions a day. And, and quite frankly, it's hard for me to tell
a story.
00;37;32;19 - 00;37;52;15
Unknown
Usually I don't cry or tear up a little bit of struggle through it,
but. But I always thought you'd die. By the time he was 7 or 8
years old, and, and my, my wife talked to, she said, just keep
doing your job, stay focused in life. You know, it's about, it's
about God. It's about believing.
00;37;52;15 - 00;38;19;07
Unknown
It's about doing what's right for, you know, your fellow man and
woman. And I remember I went to Fort Lewis was like, I was at Fort
Lewis, and Brian was at the Madigan Hospital there was it, was in
that community anyway. And, I went to tag gunner and my wife called
me, says, now this is after you had meningitis, came holidays on
like 4 or 5 different kinds of medication that control seizures and
is here and was coming out left.
00;38;19;08 - 00;38;38;26
Unknown
And seven years is trying to grow up again. And and my wife called
me says Brian sick again and said, what's wrong? See what I know?
And I said, well, let me, let me ask the first sergeant. So I'd
come home. And so, of course, I hustle and home. I can't remember
how far Jack Ma was, which is a few hours drive away.
00;38;38;28 - 00;38;58;06
Unknown
And I went home and I went right to the Madigan Hospital, and I
seen the doctor and I said, hey, doc, what's going to happen? And,
you know, it's not you know, it's, now those are tough. I can't
we're talking about struggle and and try to get through everything
you're doing and being a soldier and taking care of your family and
doing all those things.
00;38;58;06 - 00;39;33;03
Unknown
And so, doc, what's going to happen? And he said, I don't know. And
so I did what anybody else did. I went found me a chapel, a small
annex at the Madigan Hospital. And I got down on my hands and knees
and I said, God, either let him live or let him die. It's not fair
that, that he's going through this, that again of the time he is
having these, you know, 5 to 15 seizures a day and just a little
small seizures and all that, all this medication and, and, and we
don't know if he's going to make it.
00;39;33;06 - 00;39;43;05
Unknown
And so I said a prayer, and the next day they got another
order.
00;39;43;08 - 00;40;11;09
Unknown
And so, I tell people all the time that, everybody struggles. But
you got to believe. I believe in life, believe in God and believe
in yourself. And it'll. And you can work through it. But, you just
can't just can't quit. And that's, that's the thing that I tell
everybody, just don't quit. Just keep keep moving forward.
00;40;11;09 - 00;40;31;18
Unknown
And and if it would have turned out bad, okay, so be it. But but it
didn't. It didn't. So believing in yourself, believing a lie,
believing in God, believing that you can do anything that you want
to do. But the only thing it stops you is, is you. You got to
believe.
00;40;31;20 - 00;40;57;11
Unknown
Thank you, Sergeant Major. Thank you for the story. Well, that's
that's, that's that's being real open with everybody. And and you
got to open with people and tell me how you feel. So, just, again,
we all struggle. Everybody struggles, but but help each other out.
That's the key to success in life. And we'll leave it there.
00;40;57;13 - 00;41;05;26
Unknown
So our major thank you so much. Appreciate it. God bless and have a
good one.