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Dec 15, 2023

Impact is about results. Impact is delivered by having clear and measurable goals that are regularly tracked with milestones. Understanding how to achieve impact or what the desired results should be is sometimes not easy. This is where we want to tie back and leverage some of our previous episodes on connections, communication, and visibility to help others in driving impact. Short and long success personally and professionally is all about driving the best and highest impact.
 
We have all we need to become the person we want to be…let’s remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve.
 
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Episode Transcript:

00;00;08;00 - 00;00;28;17
 
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight employees, partners, organized actions, and those who are continuing the mission to serve. Welcome to the Maiden podcast. I'm your host, Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by our co-host David Cross, senior vice president and SAS Chief Information Security Officer within Oracle.

00;00;28;29 - 00;00;51;20
 
In this episode, we discuss impact. The impact is about results. Impact is delivered by having clear and measurable goals that are regularly tracked with milestones. Understanding how to achieve impact or what the desired results should be is sometimes not easy. This is where we want to tie back and leverage some of our previous episodes on connections, communication and visibility to help others in driving impact short and long term success.

00;00;51;24 - 00;01;08;02
 
Personally and professionally is all about driving the best and highest impact We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy this episode. And please remember to check in on your buddies and family.

00;01;08;07 - 00;01;24;11
 
And don't forget to send us feedback, suggestions and topics on what you would like us to cover in future episodes. It helps spread the word to the broader community David's contact details are in the podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn Morning, David.

00;01;24;19 - 00;01;33;16
 
Good morning. I'm excited. Seems like it's been a couple of weeks here, almost taking too long. And this for get to there because we want to have impact, right? You know with our community.

00;01;34;01 - 00;01;36;29
 
Impact sounds like we're talking about impact.

00;01;37;10 - 00;02;03;27
 
Well, in the end, you know, Chris, it's kind of everything we're talking about is why are we doing this, right? Why do we, you know, talking about, you know, connecting in relationships and communicating? You know, it's because so we can have more impact impact our lives, impact on our jobs, impacting our careers. And so I kind of start thinking about how can we help people to, you know, have some best practices understanding how to have the largest amount of impact.

00;02;04;09 - 00;02;12;01
 
That's right. To discover what your purpose is probably has a lot to influence whether or not you feel like you're being impactful.

00;02;12;17 - 00;02;31;26
 
Well, you know, I think as many companies are certainly high tech companies now is you know, I don't get into the performance reviews and things like that. Maybe that's a whole nother podcast in itself. But it's really people want to say, you know, measure how much impact did you have? You know, what were your results you know, did you have big results?

00;02;31;26 - 00;02;45;18
 
Do you have major results? Do you have minor results? And I think then we should really talk about how do you measure these things? How do you drive for impact? Right? How do you know when you may not be measuring or looking at the right things?

00;02;46;00 - 00;03;10;16
 
Yeah, that's right. You touched on a couple of things inside that already as we're just kicking this off. So I think when when you know what you're supposed to be doing, the questions that come in are somewhat of what you introduced as well. How do I do that when you find what's important? And then you say, well, how do I know it's going to actually yield the results that everybody's considering or expecting?

00;03;11;05 - 00;03;34;02
 
You know? And so you have the OKRs, the KPIs, you know, even in response to a question, could give an indicator as to whether or not you're aligned What I guess the you or the group had discussed is what is needing to be done. But I think there's also some room here to talk about some of those other things that maybe aren't measurable or at least maybe hard to explain.

00;03;34;02 - 00;03;52;04
 
Maybe there are measurable if you if you're skilled at being able to interpret what's happening so maybe maybe we'll kind of focus on some two key areas, you know, the obvious things and then the ones that probably aren't as commonly referred to or understood, but is a part of the equation.

00;03;53;03 - 00;04;12;07
 
Well, I think that's a great point in that because sometimes it is when we're part of organizations and goals priorities and things are top down, right? And saying, these are things you hit us like, okay, the impact I'm having is based on those goals with their top down, that's very easy. But also sometimes we work in organizations where it's not so crystal clear.

00;04;12;08 - 00;04;28;28
 
Right. Or your goals aren't so well defined. Boy, I wish we we're in the military again, right? Everything here's the mission here. The tack is this which had to clean this all written down. It's a checklist. You either did it or you didn't did not do it. It's a lot simpler sometimes. Sometimes that you also say it's hard to.

00;04;29;08 - 00;04;44;02
 
But I think one of the things is that, well, how do you measure or identify the impact you need to have if it's not written down? It's not well stated. Out, you know, in obvious ways. Right. And I think that's maybe part of our discussion today.

00;04;44;24 - 00;05;04;16
 
Yep. So start with the basics. So you in your personal life, in your professional life, you have them, they may be named differently or phrased differently or even set up differently, but you have a mission statement, you have a vision, you have goals, you know, and then from there you could develop all the actionable items that will be your strategy.

00;05;04;16 - 00;05;31;16
 
And then the team definition where you can break down tasks by role and things like that, and you can start to put the resources in motion to to begin the path towards those objectives. So maybe to bring value and understand the type of impact is do I think we'll start with clarity? First, we need to understand it.

00;05;31;26 - 00;05;54;01
 
Well, I think that's where we talked before. Communication and listening, asking questions comes into play right and I think kind of tying those together is, you know, one of the things I think is when you don't know what the impact should be or needs to be. Right. It's often it is how you ask questions of, you know, a person or organization or a manager is what are they looking for?

00;05;54;06 - 00;06;21;07
 
What do they need? You know, what results do they want? What is bothering them? I was love to say that, you know, the best employees often go to their manager and say, let's keep you awake at night. What is worrying you? Right. What are the biggest problems, you know, in your mind? Because, you know, if you solve those problems, the things that are keeping your manager and your organization away awake at night, those are the things that will have the greatest impact.

00;06;21;27 - 00;06;58;27
 
You said that and thought of I think it was General Mattis I'm the one that keeps the others awake at night or something to that effect is is this quote. So, you know, and I think we look at it as clearly we can talk about it in all kinds of ways. But when you look at it where you have external goals and internal goals, so if you're a customer facing the customer, facing any any entity outside of what you or your organization is, and then you have internal because while we're doing this, everything that we've spoken about in previous episodes and what all of us have rooted into our being is I want to get something

00;06;58;27 - 00;07;28;01
 
out of it also. So value is twofold, right? I want to be able to provide value to the external entities. Our customer focus our organizational goals and things like that. But if I don't feel fulfilled, then it's not reciprocating value. And I want to make sure that we're also including the impact. It's got to be impactful not only for the purpose of why we're driving towards common goals with others, but we want to also have an impact for ourselves so we feel fulfilled and we can continue the motivation and the desire in that purpose.

00;07;28;23 - 00;08;04;27
 
So, you know, when we talk about impact that this leads to and it just so happens, it's men's Health Awareness Month, right? And so it can be anybody's it doesn't matter, you know, to have your mental mindset preserved you know, impactful, being impactful also has to include that that internal component. And so when we think about where we're going and it's got to be measurable, what are some of the key elements that can serve both purposes?

00;08;06;02 - 00;08;23;29
 
You know, I think I'll be bad. I say, you know, let's bring a book into the conversation like we do for every podcast. Right. And so, you know, Chris and I say, please be useful right? And what am I talking about here? It's like, well, I'm going back. You know, I'm going to you know, are Arnold Schwarzenegger's latest book, you know, B would be useful, right?

00;08;24;07 - 00;08;42;05
 
And I've actually been reading it recently and I think one of the things is that of kind of tying this together and I thought was just great for, you know, our podcast this morning is that you it's not just about building a vision. It's not just, you know, understanding things. It's that really of how you're investing in yourself.

00;08;42;05 - 00;09;02;04
 
Right. To realize a vision, to realize a goal. And having the impact. And it's not just something that you spend 5 minutes on. Right. Arnold Schwarzenegger talked about his book. He said, hey, when he was trying to be a weightlifter or, you know, Olympian. Right. He spent 5 hours a day. Right. You know, working out. Then he should only do two and a half in the morning and two and a half in the afternoon.

00;09;02;05 - 00;09;21;24
 
Right. And he said this is the same as actually if you have a vision for your life or you have a vision for what you want to achieve. And he said you may have to spend 5 hours a day to do it, but that's because that's an example of doing something above and beyond to have the ultimate goal, the ultimate dream.

00;09;22;12 - 00;09;29;08
 
And I think that's a great book to really kind of emphasize and kind of use as a catalyst for this conversation.

00;09;30;29 - 00;09;59;05
 
That's a good example because I think what I heard from that was a description of lessons learned. And so in the process of pursuing objectives or goals, right. So in this case, by building, right? For that example or scalability, you know, increasing the organizational scalability potential or effectively delivering X within a certain amount of time frame you could, you could, you could say that we did that.

00;09;59;16 - 00;10;38;03
 
But what the other components are that consist of what happens while you're doing that can also be perceived as impactful. You know, hey, we did this. But when while we were doing that, we also learned this. And so in this case, you know, there's a a time frame in which things were allocated to perform a particular task. And then as time went on, it was learned that, you know, addressing how that timeline was split up to optimize the ability to be more effective, more efficient, more scalable, more sustainable, you know, there's an outcome there that you wouldn't really understand until you had actually gone through it.

00;10;40;03 - 00;11;03;05
 
What kind of building upon that example is he said what? He went to make a movie like a Terminator. He said, yeah, he spent 5 hours a day. Right. You know, there's I it being blindfolded and shooting a gun. So he never blinked again. Right. Or he's trying to become you know, the governor of California said he spent 5 hours a day, you know, studying all the issues and things like that because he said the impact he had was enormous or he wanted to have is enormous.

00;11;03;06 - 00;11;06;14
 
So he had, you know, invest enormously to achieve that.

00;11;07;00 - 00;11;40;07
 
Yeah. And most of us can relate to that. The more you're ever you're putting into something, you're in control of that. And so I can't help but think about a word that can help describe this, because there's an element here that we're all understanding. It's necessary is leadership where we have informal and formal leaders. But these are the ones that are in a hierarchal or oppositional position of influence that guide or take us from one place to the other and then be able to manage it effectively the results.

00;11;40;07 - 00;12;00;27
 
And so we can stay on track. But I think a lot of those things, as you learn, is to be impactful is the perception that you know, hey, David, the way that you're doing that is impactful. Keep going. Or, Hey, David, in order to achieve a greater impact for what we're trying to do, you know, would you would you be able to do this, that or the other thing?

00;12;01;08 - 00;12;25;11
 
In those two examples of the many, we can start to talk about the management or leadership style to where some of us as we learn and we grow, we need less oversight. Right. And that's now I'm going to introduce to micromanage micro and macro managers. Right. So some of us perform at a high level when we have a lot of autonomy that that's gained through experience.

00;12;25;11 - 00;12;48;05
 
And that, again, you've earned that by being impactful. What are your thoughts on how the dynamics between it within an organization? Let's say when you have multiple people in an organization trying to do the same thing differently? What do you think some of the elements are that we have to continuously watch to make sure that we're reciprocating the impact?

00;12;49;18 - 00;13;08;28
 
So I think one of the things that we talked about in like I think in our previous podcast about communication is one element is being clear on what the results will be. Right. So you can think about stuff like, hey, this is the impact people want you to have. It is the result they want you to achieve. But you're going to be clear, is it is the results they're going to achieve?

00;13;08;28 - 00;13;33;04
 
Right, because you could be off on that. You you know, you could you could perceive incorrectly. You could think incorrectly. And really when you what sometimes writing things down and asking maybe this is what we want to achieve. Is that correct? And then people validating it. That is very, very important because otherwise the impact you think you're going to have may not be the the actual results that are achieved.

00;13;34;01 - 00;13;39;21
 
What happens when there's a breakdown during that process of pursuing clarity?

00;13;40;05 - 00;13;59;00
 
Well, I think a bigger question is then there could be breakdowns at the beginning and are be breakdowns along the way. Right. And so I think it's it's kind of upfront is saying just like, okay, are and B are just saying like, hey, this is what we're going to achieve and these are the results. And sometimes I think it's very important to call out who is the customer of that result.

00;13;59;00 - 00;14;18;23
 
Right. And say an internal customer. External customer, maybe a person, maybe a group. Who is the customer? Right. And what are they going to achieve? And people agree with that. That's a good point. And then also, I think is always having milestones along the way saying how are the results are achieving the results? We expected right. You know, are we continuing measuring that?

00;14;18;23 - 00;14;20;27
 
If we don't, you can get off track very quickly.

00;14;21;21 - 00;14;45;28
 
Yeah. And I can't help think of the word mastery at that point. Like you know, a word that would help define how skilled you are to be able to recognize what does it take? So again, previous episodes have included elements of what we can put in our toolbox. So we have these levers to pull when we need to and how to become effective communicator.

00;14;45;28 - 00;15;12;21
 
How do you make sure that your understanding how to make, how to make yourself presence or be known the visibility component right where others see you and what you're doing? Because of course, that's you know, that's one of those milestone Check-In points where people can see what's occurring and then know how the different leadership or how the different roles will contribute.

00;15;13;18 - 00;15;32;05
 
The value of those roles they gives at a time or a period of time will go by and something will change. And we know this all the time. Organizational change, right? So something happened last week. We made we had a discussion. We made some some goals and some tasks. We distributed the tasks and we said, let's check in next week.

00;15;32;05 - 00;15;54;05
 
Well, within that timeframe, things changed. Something happened. So in the journey we've discovered and we made some accomplishments that changed the dynamics or the trajectory or the plan. So we have to check in every now and again to make sure that whatever's occurred since the last time we talked, what you just said is are we aligned or are we still in line for the things that we had discussed before?

00;15;54;13 - 00;16;12;24
 
Or what has changed? And this comes to back to I think is the mastery or the skill of the one, you know, really good program managers or project manager. We're going to stay on exactly what we're talking about. And effective leaders will also understand you're going to be able to understand now what everybody else is saying at the right level, the detail.

00;16;12;24 - 00;16;32;23
 
Because what you and I had talked about before, I can't remember when you as as a senior vice president or exposed to a lot of high level discussions, that is a culmination of everybody else's tasks passed up into context. So there's some relatable messaging that gives you the sense of what's going on.

00;16;34;11 - 00;17;13;17
 
I think one of the points, let's call it the real world example, right? We work on a result, right? It's very easy to find. The trap is like, I'm going to enhance something, I'm going to improve something, I'm going to extend something. Right. In an element of seeing that. Well, what does that really mean? Right. Those are ways where so many people fall into the trap of like you have ambiguous or ambiguous know impact goals or have ambiguous results and really want you to say, is that okay, we are going to improve the performance of the system and we can get 10% more power savings.

00;17;13;17 - 00;17;37;00
 
You know, things like that is like, oh, okay, you can measure it any time you try to have a goal or deliver impact that you can't actually measure in a physically or logically, it's always going to be a trap of mis, you know, missed results. Rate is I think it's easy to create things that are saying that you're going to improve something, but like, oh, how do you measure that?

00;17;38;01 - 00;17;54;11
 
Chris So let's say, okay, we're going to make this a podcast. We're going make this podcast, you know better. Okay, how do we measure that right now? We said we're going to have 10% more listeners next month. Like, Oh, okay, we can measure that. Did we achieve that or not?

00;17;55;11 - 00;18;39;04
 
Yeah. I think what you in between that you had said something about kind of equated to the e autonomy. Somebody is going to discover something and then realize real time maybe that something else is needing to be done. And I think that comes back down to the skill sets that have developed over time where communicating in this case is going to be necessary because if it hasn't been discussed in the plan, now we're getting down to the next level of a plan or goals that says, hey, if if we're doing this, we're going to expect this is our contingent planning piece planning right?

00;18;39;05 - 00;19;10;07
 
We're going to say, if we achieve this and this occurs, then this, then we're going to define what that is. That way we know that if it doesn't happen the way we expected, we're going to have to stop, reassess, and then recalibrate what we're going to do and then get agreement to continue on. What do you think would be the inhibitors or the ability, the things that would prevent us from having that occur without being too disruptive?

00;19;11;10 - 00;19;29;26
 
You know, actually, I think this is raising a really good point here. I think one thing is, is that jumps to mind immediately is people don't want to plan up front. It's easy to kind of jump in and get it running down, you know, running down the road and realizing like, okay, what's the time I really wanted to achieve here?

00;19;29;26 - 00;19;50;06
 
Right. Well, no, you need a planet just like a marathon or half marathon or five days. Like, you know, you're going to go in in a race. It's like, okay, what's your goal? You define that upfront, don't you? Or, you know, Chris, I know you run lots of marathons, right? So would you actually kick off or running 26.2 miles and you say, oh, I don't know what I'm going to how fast I'm going to go I'm, you know, whatever it is I'm going to finish.

00;19;50;06 - 00;19;57;20
 
So so then why do people start trying to have impact without measuring planning what the results are going to be from the very start?

00;19;57;27 - 00;20;36;03
 
They're defining what it is now. You're right. And I think we're stumbling across it now that, you know, to be impactful is relative. It's a perception based opinion, and it has to be something that everybody understands whose opinion it is right. To be impactful. Is it my managers for me, if I am trying to achieve goals successfully and make sure that I'm doing my job properly, then my whoever's in charge of me, whether directly or indirectly, whoever has influence on me, right?

00;20;36;03 - 00;20;59;09
 
Because I'll be I may be working with other other teams and people where that collective feedback is going to come back to some gatekeeper, whoever that may be, that will have an influence on my my career, my future, or me being able to continue on this particular project or task or effort. You know, it's just one of those things that it has to be agreed upon, you know, who's whose opinion matters.

00;20;59;09 - 00;21;24;19
 
So to bring impact, we have to understand who the stakeholders are, who the decision makers are, who the ones that matter most, and then who are the other key components are personnel that matter, but play a particular role in how it can be a collective input that provides that perspective into that key decision maker, that key leader. That's a good point.

00;21;24;20 - 00;21;27;12
 
Is defining the team, you know, who who's involved?

00;21;28;14 - 00;21;47;07
 
Well, I think that's a I don't want to get into there at this point, but it's almost like the race, right? Is kind of like who's who's a participant, right? Who's the approver? Right. Who's a reviewer? Right. Who's an informant? Right. And just like that, planning those should be defined upfront is part of it because you never want to say okay, here's the results and here's the plan.

00;21;47;13 - 00;21;53;18
 
Well, I don't know who's the approval of this. Right. Wow. What a horrible spot to end up in.

00;21;54;23 - 00;22;31;21
 
Yeah. You don't you don't want to learn after the fact. And then you get surprised because then we're talking about morale. You know, the the impact that has occurred has an effect on not only the organization. And we keep saying organization. I'm going to box this in. This is this is everyday life. This is everything that occurs in what we do, even from waking up and doing whatever you doing to get ready to go, whatever it is that you do here in the day or the night or whatever, it's just an understanding of I'm supposed to be doing this and here's why and here's where I know I don't need to do it anymore, right?

00;22;31;22 - 00;23;21;14
 
So we've achieved something the the people, the, the ripple effect, the people that are impacted by different context, the people that are affected. When we drive towards being impactful, we have to have that to be a consideration. Because if we're too focused or narrowly focused on that one thing and we don't do what you just talked about, plan accordingly, to where we can know the risk factors, we aren't capable now of truly capturing what that ultimate outcome, which we can consider to be the impact, what that ultimate outcome can cause, because then we may end up doing what's common when we don't plan effectively.

00;23;21;14 - 00;23;22;16
 
As we cause more issues.

00;23;23;14 - 00;23;42;16
 
Absolutely. You know, another thing, Chris, I was thinking about here is that I think you touched on a bit earlier is that as you get down into the implementation or the execution of a plan, the plans can change, right? Because there can be variables that aren't known, right? You could run into blockers, you to run in obstacles. You could run into you know, difficulties.

00;23;42;16 - 00;24;07;28
 
And so the plan can change. And that's not that's not bad, right? It's was that you're always understanding and watching for it. And that's where the milestones come in saying, okay, the assumptions that we had, the variables that we knew in various we didn't know. Right. Is there some change? So then let's update our plan. Let's update the results let's check in with all the reviewers and the participants with check in with the approver is like, is this the right new plan?

00;24;07;29 - 00;24;11;29
 
Is this the right new results? Right. And that's very, very important. To always keep in mind.

00;24;12;28 - 00;24;35;07
 
Yeah. So maybe, maybe let's toy with this idea. Let's, let's apply it to something specific because I I don't know about you, but I feel like we're so ambiguous at this moment that I know, no, we're being impactful in this conversation. But I do think that we've set a good framework by introducing a bunch of different things. So, one, you have to know what you're wanting to do.

00;24;35;25 - 00;25;05;24
 
So let's apply it to transition. Let's let's spread it across any type of transition. You're moving from one place to another. In this case, we'll keep it with our veteran affiliated community and we'll say we have service members getting ready to make a choice when there's too much information out there and there is a lot of information, it's probably too much, but some of it may be considered to be valuable based off of how you're seeing it, right?

00;25;05;24 - 00;25;23;02
 
Whatever lens you're wearing and how you feel and all those types of things. And your scenario could be unique in a sense of where it's applicable. Got it. However, the bigger picture is, generally speaking, there's a ton of information out there, and it's hard to choose which one. It's like a thought, right? If you don't know where to start, stand in front of your garage.

00;25;23;02 - 00;25;42;26
 
You see, you want to clean your garage and there's a bunch of stuff that you have to do. Where do you start? Have to know what you're trying to achieve. These are your objectives. Your goals doesn't have doesn't matter if it's short term, near-term, long term, it has to be something. And then from there, it's to say, Well, how do I think I need to get there?

00;25;43;07 - 00;26;17;04
 
And this is key because this now comes back down to what we've always been talking about is the mindset, open mindset, growth mindset, close mindset, fixed mindset. You know, Carol Dweck has that book mindset where it's fixed growth. You know, all of those things factor into to understand some other things that we've talked about. Your mindset could shift based off of little acts of or events that have occurred to where now you've learned something and now you need to make the adjustment, which is what we've just been talking about.

00;26;17;18 - 00;26;46;04
 
So you have to know what you want to do. You have to think about how you're going to get there. You have to have an open mindset to know that as you pursue this, you're going to learn some things and you have to be willing to take what you learn and apply it. If you think about all of the other folks that have also transitioned, one question that I always want to ask somebody is What made you stop listening to what people have shared with you about how to do this?

00;26;47;18 - 00;27;07;17
 
You know, I think, you know, one thing comes to mind is there to issue you read out the there's great examples and steps, Chris, is that you got to write it down, right? How many people are successful in just things that are in their memory or they're in their head? Right. Or they talked about once. Right. I can't think of too many examples of that.

00;27;07;21 - 00;27;31;05
 
Or how do you have check points with your team, your organization, if it's not written down, you say, yeah, let's go off the top of her head every once a month. Like, how are we doing against our results and what was our results? Did I remember correctly you know, so it's one things on that because when they're written down, right, you can reference them, you can use them, and they will reinforce all of your structure and behaviors.

00;27;33;02 - 00;27;57;18
 
Right? Yes. It's an infinite loop. And if you don't have it in front of you, you don't have a focus right now. You could I could be wrong. I'm absolutely not skilled and experienced in the depth of what that could be. As far as a specialization you know, having your thoughts versus writing it down, you could be focused on your thoughts if you're very skilled at it.

00;27;57;18 - 00;28;17;20
 
But is that a way to do it? Maybe there's a technique that you're introducing now is to say, well, instead of that and relying on that because that can be so elusive, then write it down. And when you write it down now, you have a point of reference. How often do we like because you've labeled me some running fanatic to where my knees would argue the point.

00;28;18;06 - 00;28;46;26
 
But when we're out doing something, walking by ourselves in our in our own mind and we think about things, how often do we have this epiphany? So things change. If you have recall, great if you have the ability to recall through being able to see it, you can go back to say, well, that was my thought before. Now I have this new thought and this is journaling, and you're creating a trail of how your thought began and where your thought is growing.

00;28;47;23 - 00;29;10;12
 
And maybe the thought will end if you no longer have it be a priority, but you have you have the ability to trace it and then go back to these things that can help develop these dynamics that allow you to maneuver through the conditions where ambiguity might be coming. Right. It's determining now there's too much space for me to know where to focus on and I don't know where to start.

00;29;10;25 - 00;29;29;23
 
And then you potentially have a higher probability of no longer pursuing it, because now it becomes overwhelming. These types of things, you know, to be impactful, you have to be able to understand where you started and where you want to go. So you can lessons learned, you can do lessons learned, but also you can bring people with you and then you can understand what was what was valuable what was impactful.

00;29;30;17 - 00;29;31;28
 
That got you to that next step.

00;29;33;10 - 00;29;56;11
 
In kind of building upon that is I think there's one thing as well. It's just your goal and is just you and no one else, right? Yep, absolutely. You can think about it as a point of mind, but anything is like how you bring others, right? From engagement, from a from a collaboration perspective. Like what I even think about recently for us at Oracle, we have our Maven 11 kind of initiative, right?

00;29;56;11 - 00;30;23;17
 
Is like the 11 days, you know, going up to the Veterans Day, right? We, we use our slack, we use email that 11. We, we called out and said, hey everybody every day, you know, kind of send a slack message, you know, what did you achieve that day. It had impact. It had impact on me is like, oh what I've forgotten about it great is I was a motivated seeing others had big impact is amazing how the impact of one small thing of just using some tools in setting the goals and results and then being public about it.

00;30;23;17 - 00;30;27;10
 
It was motivating and drove me did it do the same for you.

00;30;29;03 - 00;30;58;16
 
Did and that's a good call out and while we're there you know huge shout out to the military affiliated veteran employee network board where they allow this idea sharing to come up because that that came from an idea means basically what we're talking about we have a large organization filled with veteran affiliated people. Right so we have spouses, we have family members, we have parents we have veterans, we have reservists.

00;30;59;00 - 00;31;20;14
 
We have all of those components inside this organization. And we're all looking for something. And when we bring people together, and we discover that commonality, what can we do to be impactful? What do we want to do to encourage to retain that camaraderie, retain that feeling of that purpose? That we can have in that common bond that we've we've shared through generations?

00;31;21;21 - 00;31;50;20
 
We we came up and we landed on through a conversation. We landed on well, for Veterans Day, let's do maybe 11 for 11 days leading up to Veterans Day. We'll do an activity. And this goes back to the health benefits of being active from the mental state, the emotional state, the physical state, the nutritional value, all of these elements to where we're putting in front of us a target, a goal, an objective and the objective was to try to replicate something in a new environment.

00;31;51;12 - 00;32;08;08
 
And how we did that was brought people together, talked about what we could do and it's a living, breathing thing. It was occurring over time and it kept evolving. And it will continue to evolve because we've introduced so many different things in alternatives that allows us to do those types of things. So how do we measure the impact?

00;32;08;24 - 00;32;28;22
 
Well, actually, Chris, let me try that. We measure impact because we used the Slack channel, right? We we had registration, made a Slack channel and we measured, right? We watched who was participating, who was actually reporting the results like that, that we measured it. Right? That was what mattered in the environment. There's a reward saying, well, you don't get swag if you actually don't report it.

00;32;28;22 - 00;32;32;19
 
So we measured what mattered, right? And we're rewarding people that achieve the goals.

00;32;33;12 - 00;32;53;17
 
Yeah. Good point. Yep. And we did it in a sense to where we left. We left the, the autonomy there, right? Because it didn't matter what people were doing. We weren't monitoring to make sure that people were actually doing something other than just to, to give an incentive, you know, that they could have a purpose for the next day.

00;32;53;18 - 00;33;10;09
 
You know, for some of us that maybe pushed a little too hard on this thing that were our physical limitations or our desire and all that stuff was having us in a certain way one day and we did something, we pushed ourselves hard that day and the next day maybe we're a little sore, but we woke up and somebody else was doing something and we were like, you know what?

00;33;10;23 - 00;33;44;08
 
That person's doing it. I'm doing it. Got us up out and doing it. And, you know, the level of engagement is based off of perception that we talked about. It's relative to those that, you know, in this case were the the creators of it to make sure that it wasn't terrible, meaning, you know, it was safely done. We put you know, resources in to make sure that they have a way to to reference what's needed for them to to to maintain and sustain the things that are necessary to be safe and and capable.

00;33;44;21 - 00;34;07;08
 
You know, but I think at the end of the day, we defined early on, here's what we're trying to do. Here's how we're going to we're going to measure it. And here's how we're not going to measure it. Measure it. How do you make sure you don't over measure or over state? How are you going to let's not even overstate how do you measure your oversight to make sure that it's not too restrictive?

00;34;08;28 - 00;34;45;17
 
Well, that's a good question. I think one of the first, you know, gaps or challenged I think people run into is you measuring too much, right? You over measure, right. And sometimes pressure, you know, the analysis paralysis. Right. Is like we have a goal and you say let's have 15 different measurements like now is that really what matters because ultimately and this is sometimes the ah the science behind it is identify is what is the one or two things that you can measure that really will be indicators of the entire impact you don't want every performance angle is it's not like hey in an airplane like we're going to look at 15,000 different sensors and say

00;34;45;17 - 00;35;02;29
 
we're going to track each one of I know we want to know do we get up in the air and do we land with everyone alive. Right. That's what matters in the end. That's what matters isn't it. So I'm being overly simplistic but I think there is an element is that you really of coming back to who is the customer, right?

00;35;02;29 - 00;35;19;15
 
And what does success look like for that customer? And then what's at what's one metric, what's one litmus test that we can use for that? Right. And I think coming back to our mission is kind of ultimately is we had engagement rate. You know, it was about how many people engaged, right? You know, it was for the greater the who was the customer.

00;35;19;15 - 00;35;30;01
 
It was the community itself. Right. And really, I think this was slack and I think it came into play. We could actually see how many people are engaging. And that was a way we measured. And because there was a lot I think it was a big success.

00;35;31;24 - 00;36;07;17
 
And I would agree. I mean, it's yeah, there's different ways to do that. I mean, we keep talking about it humble, humble, brag about it because, you know, it is it's something we hold dear for for for us for our reasons and we'll leave it there. But so we have we have this this idea we've created a place for those ideas to be shared and heard and regulated I mean, because there's some there's some real far out ideas that that are possible, but probably not in the current state maybe.

00;36;07;17 - 00;36;28;16
 
And we start to think about futuristic. So in any case, the dialog was created for everybody to come together to think about things in you and yourself. And we have this we'll go back to the transition mindset. We know where we want to go. We're thinking about how we're going to get there. We're having an open mind to consider what happens when I'm going to hear from people.

00;36;28;19 - 00;36;48;00
 
I'm going to go out, I'm going to talk to people, I'm going to I'm going to figure out how to do this. This kind of the duality of this issue now that's been created as I have internal a perspective where over over a period of years where we always get jammed up is, well, this is the way I've done it.

00;36;48;12 - 00;37;09;21
 
I'm going to continue to do it this way. And if we're that's why that open mind is critical, because if you're hearing something that you don't like, we all know that sometimes that's what you need to hear when you're not hearing what you want to hear. There's a reason for that. And so when we start to classify what we need to hear as something that I don't want to hear, what do you do with that?

00;37;09;21 - 00;37;27;18
 
And that's the benefit of now opening yourself up to hear things that you haven't heard previously, because that's where your growth potential could occur. When you have that and operate as an opportunity in front of you and then you act on it. I think that's kind of the fore fourth element here is to be impactful. You have to get to the next step and do something with it.

00;37;29;27 - 00;37;49;28
 
Well, something like coming back to a point which I think maybe lateral that is, sometimes you can you can define the doors that that you want to achieve and are measuring, but it's also okay to define the things that you don't want to achieve, right? Is I'll say this is not a priority. This is not you know, it's not about this.

00;37;49;28 - 00;38;04;22
 
It's not about A, B and C, right. Sometimes that gives a lot of clarity on the results you do want to achieve. And there's less confusion because you've got all of of the the negatives, let's say the negative is defined or the non goal is defined as well.

00;38;06;02 - 00;38;25;08
 
So right. David, so that the non goals I mean these are these are factors are things that we all know, you know, a plant, a plan is defined based off of what's known and even what's not known will be known like, hey, we know this. So we're going to try to do that and be aware of these things.

00;38;25;08 - 00;38;43;29
 
And that's the unknown, right? So we factor in some of the things that are unknown with the open mind. We're able to kind of make a clear delineation between where our left and right and a backstop would be like if we occur if we encounter too many things that we didn't plan for, we need to stop. So now we have a measure, a time, a timeline to be able to let's reassess.

00;38;44;15 - 00;39;09;11
 
But then we factor in the things that we weren't aware of, which now comes with other people if other people come into the equation and have input. My question to anybody really is what are you willing because we can't talk about these external occurrences. Do we ever how often do we account for the internal occurrence to say, somebody is going to tell me something?

00;39;10;17 - 00;39;31;24
 
How am I going to see that as one of those factors that we accounted for? And take ourselves out of what that person saying? This is feedback. I mean, basically you can equate it to feedback. Are we going to hear it for what it is and then do something with it or are we going to dismiss it? And this is listening to your leaders write all of these elements that we talk about.

00;39;32;04 - 00;39;37;18
 
When you listen to others, who are you considering the ones that are valuable enough to be heard.

00;39;39;20 - 00;40;02;04
 
Well, I think that's a great point. You know, coming back and communication, listening, right. You know, the connections on, I think a part of the goal is going back to the element of the RACI, the approver, right. You know, who who who is the approver? Who is going to track the results? Is their perception or their acceptance of the results, you know, is that the right person for that?

00;40;02;04 - 00;40;03;29
 
Right. I think it's very, very important to call out.

00;40;05;18 - 00;40;32;13
 
Yeah, it's it's it is it's a tough one because when you're when you're intensely focused on a path that has been defined under different circumstance, ounces in the warmth, the safety comfort of wherever you are, you're developing a plan on your whiteboard while you have coffee in your hand. You know, you're you're comfortable and then you get out.

00;40;32;13 - 00;40;59;23
 
And now it's uncomfortable because the inclement weather, it's cold. It's it's not where you want to be. How does information occur to you in different environments and circumstances where you're going to continue on with the point as as you act, you should understand completely that that's your learning environment. And that's probably the only I mean, this is debatable, but this is me talking.

00;41;01;20 - 00;41;20;08
 
That's the only thing that you should ever carry into your mindset is everything that's going to happen after I take this next step is something that I need. I need to learn, I need to pay attention to. I need to factor in what I'm going to do next. Now, you can compartmentalize it. You can say well, that's that's important, that's urgent.

00;41;20;18 - 00;41;37;06
 
That's not as important. That's relevant. Maybe not relevant now. But I'm going to make note. This goes back to what you're saying, writing it down. So you have a, you know, some nuggets and breadcrumbs to go back to you to say so-and-so said something a couple of weeks ago that I didn't know that it meant something then, but it means something now.

00;41;37;15 - 00;41;51;25
 
And you have record of it and you can incorporate it because you never know when these things will come together to build something. The pieces to the puzzle. You're going to get pieces over time that you never know if it's going to actually surface itself to be relevant in the future. You don't know, but you have to think about it.

00;41;52;20 - 00;41;59;28
 
Well, I think I spot on, Chris. I that's why we had all the bulls written down for maybe 11 because like everyone on Veterans Day was doing a marathon, wasn't that correct?

00;42;02;15 - 00;42;12;11
 
I think you need to wear your bow tie and your sweater vest, get out there and do that marathon. If you do that, I'll run with you all right.

00;42;12;11 - 00;42;16;19
 
As long as I your game for under three 30 Boston qualifier Chris Stapleton.

00;42;17;29 - 00;42;19;05
 
Not saying it's impossible.

00;42;20;06 - 00;42;28;04
 
That's right. If it was the end of the world and if we got invaded like in the red movie Red Dawn right. Yep yep. We'll run some marathons yeah.

00;42;28;09 - 00;42;53;29
 
Chase me and we'll see what happens. I don't know yeah. So you know thinking about where you want to go thinking about how you can get there and your current mindset knowing that your current mindset is not the future mindset think about what you're going to incorporate as part as far as the, the contributors to your growth to know if, if what you're doing is aligned to what you set out to do.

00;42;55;07 - 00;43;18;06
 
Anticipate that you're going to learn things along the way and have that as your primary objective so you can receive information or clarity without interference of your self-talk or your conditioned mindset that has you thinking, Well, this is the way I've done it before. This is how I'm going to do it again. I mean, there's there's limitations on that.

00;43;18;06 - 00;43;40;01
 
And I think we all get that context and then what how are you going to incorporate as you learn, what are you going to need to do to be impactful? It takes a little bit of work I think the thing that you landed on early, David, was key the plan. What is the plan? Because some of us just have an idea and then we execute on that idea.

00;43;40;11 - 00;43;58;02
 
I use your analogy, so sitting on my butt for several months, I used to run sitting on my butt for several months. I go out and try to run that tank. Not good. It's not a great idea. Your hips will tell you things, right? Your knees will tell you things. All right. So I use those as an indicator.

00;43;58;02 - 00;44;07;18
 
And the analogy of like you can't just get up and do stuff if you've never done it before and think that you're going to get to where you want to be. And if you do well, congrats. You're lucky.

00;44;08;14 - 00;44;26;10
 
I think a spot on, you know, kind of on closing, Chris, is that ultimately you set your goal, build your plan. Who is the customer? Sometimes the customer is yourself. Sometimes the customer is your boss. Sometimes your customer is an external customer. Then define how you're going to measure that result in a way that you can actually measure.

00;44;26;12 - 00;44;44;21
 
Right. And the last but not least, right you have regular check points and milestones until they actually look, are we on plan? Do we need change the plan? Are we going to achieve the results or not is sometimes there can be things are coming up but you adjust. You now have a new plan, you have update the customer, update your approval, and then you get ready to go.

00;44;45;15 - 00;44;51;22
 
Well stated. Last thing, listen to your people all right. David Z it.

00;44;53;17 - 00;45;11;06
 
Is that it, Chris? Well, we're never ending. You know, our goal is that every month we're going to get 10% more listeners to the podcast and we're not going to we're going to take the variables, we're going to get the feedback on that and we, we're going to continue to strive to that. And because we can keep doing that forever, it can't we?

00;45;12;01 - 00;45;25;10
 
We could. I'm going to, I'm going to throw something out here. It's just we're talking about that. If you got this far into this podcast, and this episode and you hear this send send David and I have a LinkedIn message and say, I heard it.

00;45;27;15 - 00;45;45;23
 
We loved it. We'd love to hear from you. And I would say that people that have reached out to us, I respond to every single one. We welcome the feedback and because we want to make this better for the community. And so we're excited to get all your messages. And even though I get a gazillion messages from LinkedIn scammers or what else, I respond to everyone.

00;45;45;24 - 00;45;46;14
 
Believe it or not.

00;45;47;07 - 00;45;50;12
 
I believe it already. One Keep moving forward.

00;45;50;24 - 00;45;51;11
 
Let's roll.