May 12, 2025
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;41;08
Unknown
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people
together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight
employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the
mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host,
Chris Spencer, and in this episode, I'm joined by Josh Johnson,
director of programs for the Special Operators Transition
Foundation. As his military chapter came to a close, Josh, the
retired U.S. Army veteran with nearly 32 years of service, much of
it within US Special operations, turned to the Special Operators
Transition Foundation, or so for guidance and navigating what came
next.
00;00;41;08 - 00;01;02;19
Unknown
That experience didn't just help him find his footing in a new
career. It sparked a deeper calling after spending his first few
years out of uniform, applying the skills he'd sharpened over
decades of service. Josh returned to Sota not as a participant this
time, but as a leader. Now he's committed to helping other
transitioning special operators find their way forward, giving back
through the very program that helped launched his own next
chapter.
00;01;02;20 - 00;01;25;20
Unknown
In this episode, Josh shares real world insight into the challenges
of transition, the importance of self discovery, and why success
beyond the military comes down to one key word investment from
developing a shared vision with your family. Establishing a strong
network of connections to executing that plan with the same
tenacity forged in service. Josh offers a grounded, motivating
roadmap for anyone standing at the edge of a major life shift.
00;01;25;20 - 00;01;45;00
Unknown
We have all we need to become the person we want to be. So let's
remember how to connect with others with sincerity and genuine
intent. As we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for listening.
We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to check in
on your buddies and family, Josh's contact details in the podcast
description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn.
00;01;45;03 - 00;02;07;16
Unknown
Good morning Josh. Hey good morning Chris. Good to see you. Good to
see you. Thanks for joining me on this early Monday morning. I
appreciate it. Anything exciting happening in the next couple of
days or how was the weekend? Weekend was good. We're, my wife has a
long list of honey do's, and she was out this week, so I took the
opportunity to can kind of knock some of those out.
00;02;07;16 - 00;02;28;08
Unknown
So I'm repainting kitchen cabinets. So I got to do all the sanding
and prepping and start painting that. So, not as relaxing as a
typical weekend, but not bad. Not bad. You can do that with your
hands. You feel like you accomplished something? Yeah, that's some
tedious work, too. That's mean. Got to get it right. Or you can see
it right one podcast time, right?
00;02;28;08 - 00;02;46;16
Unknown
You get that, you get to listen all your good. Do you pick up on
anything? Any good ones? Man, I listened to a couple, Sean Ryan's
got, health and wellness doctor, and he's just going through the
whole food process and, you know, trying to figure out how to eat,
right? And, some good stuff, right?
00;02;46;17 - 00;03;06;23
Unknown
He's like, hey, man, if if, if you don't have that ingredient in
your in your cabinet right now, don't eat that food. That's a
pretty simple thing. So just, you know, full whole foods, whole
ingredients. Yeah. Yeah. He's digging, digging into the, the whole
saturated fats and oils and all that. And, you know, it's good
stuff. Yeah.
00;03;06;24 - 00;03;28;27
Unknown
No. It's good. Those little things help. All right. Josh is here to
talk about the Special Operators Transition Foundation. And of
course, as we typically do, we we lead in with a little bit about
our guests. And so, Josh, if you would mind tell us a little bit
about you. Yeah. So again I appreciate the opportunity to get on
the Maven podcast and have this conversation.
00;03;29;00 - 00;03;49;29
Unknown
You know, we've, sort of the Special Operators Transition
Foundation and Oracle has, has built a really strong relationship
over the last, I don't know, year or so. And it's only getting
stronger. And so, you know, pull up through like this to get on and
and talk with folks and you know just explain what we do. I'm very
appreciative of that, of the opportunity.
00;03;49;29 - 00;04;06;21
Unknown
So born and raised in Utah come from a decent sized family. Five of
us total spent a lot of time, you know, in sports because, you
know, the more practice you have, the less chores you have at the
house. So, you know, you spend as much time out of the house as
possible and leave it, leave everything else to the little
siblings.
00;04;06;21 - 00;04;26;10
Unknown
Let them do all that. Join the army early with this lofty goal. As
a 17 year old terrible student of becoming a, an FBI agent at the
time, I had the opportunity to talk to an FBI agent who was like,
hey, we want accountants, lawyers or linguists. And I was like,
well, not going to go to law school.
00;04;26;12 - 00;04;49;17
Unknown
Math is my worst subject, apparently. I need to go learn it, learn
a language. So I joined the Utah Army National Guard, to be a
Russian linguist. And when I got down to the Defense Language
Institute, Monterey, California, I found out that I do not learn
languages very well. So, struggled in that and ended up not passing
that which was one of the first times I ever failed anything.
00;04;49;17 - 00;05;09;29
Unknown
That was kind of a, a kick in the guts and a reset. Came back, got
married, had a baby and was doing like, construction. And then the
National Guard and realized that that I probably want to try
something else. Law enforcement was still on my mind, but I was too
young to go be a police officer in the state of Utah.
00;05;10;02 - 00;05;34;21
Unknown
So I joined active duty, became a military policeman, did that for
about ten years. And then we were stationed in Belgium. I had gone
back to the states, to the Army's protective services, detachment,
like bodyguard school. And in my mind, I had this picture that was
going to be all of these, like, top performers. Because who why
wouldn't you want that?
00;05;34;21 - 00;05;56;02
Unknown
You know, guarding all these, you know, important people. And it
was it was a little like this, a little disappointed. But there
were two Navy Seals in the course. And when we were doing our
intros, everyone's like, oh, you know, I'm stationed in Belgium and
we're going to be providing security for the, the secure. And, you
know, all these everyone's kind of going around where they're going
to be assigned.
00;05;56;05 - 00;06;15;07
Unknown
And the two Navy Seals and one of them gets up and he goes, we're
actually here to learn how to kill guys like you. And I just
started laughing. I was like, well, that's a different mentality.
But through the program, I mean, it was a great course of great
training. We learned a ton. I just wasn't overly impressed with the
people I was surrounded with.
00;06;15;07 - 00;06;42;27
Unknown
And I kind of got thinking about the people in the, in the
organization. And it it dawned on me that I was just ready to be
surrounded by, kind of a, I would say high caliber, but at least
people that were looking for something more because it can become
shift work and all that stuff that comes with being a military
policeman, it can become, kind of, hey, let's just get this done
and get over it and get through with this.
00;06;42;27 - 00;07;03;17
Unknown
And and I get it right. It's long hours, midnight shifts and all
that stuff. And so there's not a lot of training that was going on.
But I just decided I wanted to try something different. So I came
home, took my wife out to dinner. Been gone a month, and she was
like, well, how was the trip?
00;07;03;17 - 00;07;22;14
Unknown
And I was like, it was good. But, I think I want to go Special
Forces. And it was like the record player stopped, the restaurant
got suddenly quiet, everyone staring, and she was like, are we
going to talk about this? And I said, I feel like that's what we're
doing now. And she's like, sounds like you've already made a
decision.
00;07;22;14 - 00;07;47;16
Unknown
I said, well, I think I have. And so ended up, you know, we talked
it through and there were a lot of of misconceptions and, you know,
rumors and, and all these different things. And we ended up finding
we had a chaplain, who had been a who had been a prior 18 alpha. So
Special Forces officer made it to the rank of major.
00;07;47;16 - 00;08;09;18
Unknown
And then he decided he wanted to go to chaplaincy and so we had a
chance to talk with him. And he was like, here's the deal. Like, as
in any other MOS in the military, you're going to have people that
make, you know, terrible decisions. He goes, but there's a lot
fewer of them. And, you know, all of these rumors that you hear,
they're just really not all that true.
00;08;09;18 - 00;08;35;12
Unknown
What you're hearing are the bad highlights. It kind of eased some
of that concerns that she had. And I just got a fire in my belly
and just decided that it was going to happen. So I tried a really
hard, which was super interesting because I'm, you know, rushing
through these little Belgian towns carrying five gallon water jugs
and just whatever people are going to be like, what is crazy
American doing?
00;08;35;15 - 00;09;01;26
Unknown
But I went to selection and I did well. And man, what, what an
ordeal. The, if anyone ever know if anyone's ever heard anything
about, Special Forces assessment selection, it's a three week
process. Week one is all like individual assessment, swim test, PT
test, psychological eval. Some run, some rocks, a little bit of
classes on land navigation, to just get everyone to kind of a
baseline.
00;09;01;28 - 00;09;25;27
Unknown
And then week two is all individual assessment. So primarily based
around land navigation skills. So I mean you're walking you kind of
start out small or you're doing like 4 or 5 mile day and night
iterations and then it pluses up and then you culminate with like a
25 mile night in day assessment. And that's a hard pass.
00;09;25;27 - 00;09;53;13
Unknown
If you don't pass out, you're out. And then you go into team week
and team week is it's a unique experience because they give you all
of these crazy tasks and you have to, you know, immediately build
rapport with the people you're working with. Establish a plan,
enact that plan. And it's things like, here's an old Army Jeep with
three tires, and year four, you know, 12ft poles and some lashing
rope.
00;09;53;14 - 00;10;17;12
Unknown
Move this thing eight miles down the road, or, one that they
referred to as the fat bastard or the down pile up. It was a, an
Army duffel bag. The old school army duffel bag filled with 300
pounds of dirt. And then you got these, four lashings, you know,
poles, and you make a litter out of it, and you carry that thing,
and it felt like 100 miles, I'm sure was only like 5 or 6.
00;10;17;15 - 00;10;41;00
Unknown
But you just do it. All of these different tests, day and night
iterations of all these different tests, and they're looking at,
you know, what your leadership ability is, what what you're going
to be like as a as a team member, do you have the ability to dig in
when things get tough? And so at the end of that, if you pass all
of those gates, that's just the entrance exam to go to the the Q
course.
00;10;41;02 - 00;11;02;28
Unknown
So I was in Belgium at the time, so I had to go back. And the army
rule was you have to complete two thirds of an overseas tour before
you could return. So at about eight months left. So we just, you
know, kept trying to get better and better shape, brush up on some
skills that I didn't didn't have, got it to a bunch of infantry
manuals or Ranger handbook and things, you know, things you don't
necessarily do as an MP and then showed back up.
00;11;02;28 - 00;11;27;21
Unknown
But I got selected to be an SF medic, which was an incredible, I
always had kind of an interest in medicine, first aid and whatnot.
So you go back, you do, what they call phase one, which is like,
it's small unit tactics. So kind of like a mini ranger school. It's
about 45 days long, multiple patrols that you're testing day and
night and, and you've got, you know, three different positions.
00;11;27;21 - 00;11;55;18
Unknown
So you got to you got to you got to get tested out and go through
and finish that went into the to the SF medic course. In the medic
course is one of the most insane, intense, incredible courses that
the military has to offer. So it's a year long process that takes
you from a basic medical get yourself, or yourself, your, paramedic
license.
00;11;55;18 - 00;12;18;25
Unknown
So you go and do some rotations at, at a hospital, and then you do
some rotations on an ambulance crew. So you're seeing, you know,
emergencies, and then you go into the trauma side and they've got
these just incredibly well laid out scenarios with, you know,
mannequins that give biofeedback and just all these things. And
every day is just kind of a test.
00;12;18;25 - 00;12;44;04
Unknown
Just a test and, work your way through that, and then you end up
going into advanced medicine where you're learning surgery and
dental and laboratory work and you name it. At the end of this,
you're allowed to be what, what the Navy refers to as a, an
independent duty corpsman. So you can be the sole medical provider,
for American and, local forces.
00;12;44;06 - 00;13;12;22
Unknown
And I'm telling you, SF medics come out of there with skills. I
mean, far above, at least on the tactical, the hands on emergency
trauma stuff. It's pretty funny. We go through these hospital
rotations. We do two of them during that course, and the SF medics
will get in there, and they're faster than doctors. On some of
these things, like sinking a chest tube, somebody's got, you know,
taking a wound to the chest and there, that cavities filling up
with blood pressure.
00;13;12;24 - 00;13;37;10
Unknown
And, you know, guys are sinking these chest tubes because they've
done 30 or 40 of them, whereas the average doctors read about one,
saw PowerPoint on it, had somebody kind of walk them through it.
And so you get you get done with that and you feel like you are
just super well trained. And it was kind of the first time I ever
walked out of an Army school feeling like, man, I know something I
like.
00;13;37;10 - 00;14;19;16
Unknown
I legitimately know how to do something. Then you go back, you do
the big culminating exercise. It's called the Robin Savage
exercise. And it's a simulated unconventional warfare exercise.
It's about 45 days long. You get your mission, you go through
planning, you do this big long, you know, infill helicopters and
rocking and linking up with Partizans and, you know, moving into a
guerrilla base with these, you know, guerrilla fighters that are
taking on this big, long government and the scenarios that the,
that the instructors come up with and the local population that's
been doing this for the 50, 60 years that SF has been in
existence.
00;14;19;18 - 00;14;40;01
Unknown
I mean, we got we got tested to take out a, train bridge one time,
and I was like, okay, this will be kind of cool. Sneak out in the
middle of the night. You're replacing, you know, you know,
simulated explosives and whatnot. And we were on the tarmac and,
you know, hey, the train is going to come by at this time.
00;14;40;03 - 00;14;55;11
Unknown
And sure enough, a train went by and I was like, are you kidding
me? You guys got a train to do this because it went over the
bridge. It stopped, came out, they did an evaluation, and then the
train went back and I was like, you, you legitimately got somebody
to drive a train in the middle of the night to for this
exercise.
00;14;55;11 - 00;15;21;27
Unknown
So super cool, train to come out of that go to language school,
which, as we already know, I'm not super strong on learning
languages. It I was able to to learn enough Indonesian to pass the
test and move on to first Special Forces Group. First group. So
you've got five active duty S.F. groups, and they're all kind of
regionally aligned for a special forces group that has a primary
responsibility for what they call Indo pick.
00;15;22;02 - 00;15;42;28
Unknown
So Asia. So I got to do a lot of work in the Philippines and
Thailand and, India and Bangladesh and just really get to
understand that that area and then, you know, all the big wars
kicked off. And so we're doing rotations in between, you know, our
AOR and then go into Iraq and go into Afghanistan.
00;15;42;28 - 00;16;09;18
Unknown
And so you get just a really good understanding of the capabilities
of special operations. I got back got to become a an SF team star.
And and typically that's an E8 position and it's about a two year
assignment. But I when I first got there, SF, I got assigned to a
dive team. So underwater operations team, and there was only one
per battalion at the time.
00;16;09;18 - 00;16;40;12
Unknown
And then they decided they wanted to grow the capability. Well, at
that point, I was a diver, a dive supe, and a dive medical
technician, and they were like, hey, we want we want you to to go
stand up another dive team, grow that capability, within the
battalion. So as a non promotable E-7, I got picked up to go do
that ends up I got I, I ended up with almost four and a half years
as a team sergeant, which is, you know, twice as long as the
average person gets.
00;16;40;15 - 00;17;09;24
Unknown
It was awesome. Just incredible. Some of the best soldiers have
ever worked with doing some, some really cool missions, building
the capability and growing the team from the ground up was was
pretty fun. As I left that, I, I got the opportunity to go do a, a
two year, the kind of impact the military exchange or military
military professional exchange, opportunity program or other.
00;17;09;27 - 00;17;39;10
Unknown
So I was the sole U.S. guy with the Australian CSR. So Australia's
tier one unit got to to run a gun with those guys for two years.
And one of the just I mean, I'm living in Perth, Australia. I'm one
kilometer away from probably the most beautiful beach in the
planet, running with with with guys that are just super motivated
and very well trained and just thoroughly enjoyed that.
00;17;39;12 - 00;18;07;26
Unknown
When I came back, I was a senior eight, getting ready to get looked
at for, E9, but I kind of decided that I was it was time, right? I
was a 20 years at that point, and they assigned me to a company
that one of my really good friends was, he was a company SA major,
and he was like, hey, I want you to be my operations are and I want
you to, you know, get us ready to, to to do a combat rotation over
Afghanistan.
00;18;07;26 - 00;18;36;02
Unknown
And I said, well, yeah, I'm, I'm cool, but I think I'm, I think I'm
going to get out. And so guy's name is Danny Roscoe and he's famous
for, for saying that he's only got a, you know, a 12th grade,
California public school education, but he's got a master's in
trigonometry. He essentially tricked me into staying in for the
rotation and then during the rotation, he said, hey, I want you to
go be the battalion.
00;18;36;05 - 00;19;05;10
Unknown
You know, first sergeant and then ended up making certain major.
And so you know, came back, took over that exact same company as a
company. SA major took him back to Afghanistan and then came back.
And then I ended up closing out my, my time, what we call the
advanced skills company. So managing all the training for
parachuting, diving, shooting, some of the Intel courses, the
jacks, they're called.
00;19;05;10 - 00;19;27;22
Unknown
So tax and NSF. Just a great way to to close out, a career. And so
I ended up doing just under 32 years, after I told that guy I was
going to get out at 23 and stuff. But it was good. It was it was an
incredible experience. So I retired in July, kind of at the
beginning of the whole Covid scare.
00;19;27;22 - 00;19;47;20
Unknown
And there was a bunch of, of issues with trying to get my, you
know, VA claims process, because the morning I was supposed to go
in and meet with my VSO, there was an 8:00 and an 830 appointment.
I had the 830 appointment at 815. The world shut down because of
Covid, and they're trying to figure out what I was going to do.
00;19;47;20 - 00;20;05;14
Unknown
And the Army at my unit essentially said, hey, go figure out how to
be a civilian. You're going to retire. We're going to give you the
time to go do that. And so, you know, you're working on, you know,
what that was going to look like. And I think, like most of us,
when the time comes, we're ill prepared for it.
00;20;05;17 - 00;20;24;24
Unknown
And I remember sitting down thinking, okay, well, let let's figure
out this process. And I just stared at a wall trying to to, you
know, whiteboard, trying to figure out what I was going to do and
realize I didn't know. I didn't know how to become a civilian. And
about that time I'd heard of this organization, at the time, it was
called Your Grateful Nation.
00;20;24;27 - 00;20;48;06
Unknown
And it was, SOF specific, Veterans Transition organization. So I
called and interviewed for it, and and it was a rough interview. I
was I was surprised at, you know, how detailed they wanted and, you
know, the information kind of really digging into, make sure that I
was going to be the the right guy because their reputation was
based on.
00;20;48;06 - 00;21;17;20
Unknown
Hey, we're bringing in the right people, putting them in front of
the right organizations. But I was I was selected for it, went
through that program, ended up getting picked up for a role with a
company called West Shore Home. And they're a home improvement
company based out of, Carlisle. Well, Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.
So left Washington State, where we were where we were stationed,
moved out to Pennsylvania, and I was hired as the director of
training and leadership development.
00;21;17;22 - 00;21;35;25
Unknown
So if there is if there is a, a way to take an Army sergeant major
and put him into a civilian organization, that's the place, right?
So they didn't have one at the time? It was a brand new concept
that they were trying to develop. And they said, hey, you know,
you've got experience building a team from the ground up.
00;21;35;28 - 00;22;01;06
Unknown
You've got all this experience and training and, and, you know,
development, go figure this program out. So I ended up working for
them for about two and a half years. It was great. Built this
program from the ground up. Just learned an absolute ton about that
specific industry. And then just civilian organizations in general
ended up getting poached to go work doing leadership development
consulting.
00;22;01;09 - 00;22;25;18
Unknown
And that was fun. I got to meet just, I don't know, 20 or 30
different organizations, everything from police departments to
cruise ship line up, an Alaskan trucking company up in Minnesota,
just all these different organizations. And so I got to learn a
bunch about a ton of different industries, through this process.
But the entire time I had been very active as a mentor for a
while.
00;22;25;20 - 00;22;46;18
Unknown
And that then while I was in the program, became the Special
Operators Transition Foundation. So they did a name change to to
better align what they do. Just to make it a lot simpler, it was an
advertising, decision. But the line, you know, the the name of the
organization changed to align with the actual mission of the
organization.
00;22;46;23 - 00;23;02;27
Unknown
And I'd been very active, you know, helping new guys come into the
program and trying to figure out what they wanted to do. And now
suddenly I had all of this experience from, you know, being out of
the military and working in these different roles. And they asked
me if I wanted to come on, and become the director of programs.
00;23;02;29 - 00;23;22;26
Unknown
And so and in January of 2023, I started in the role that I'm in,
I'm, now, so, it's great. So now I run the process that all of the
fellows coming through the Special Operators Transition Foundation
go through. I get to do their initial intake call. I get to kind of
figure out what what it is.
00;23;22;26 - 00;23;44;15
Unknown
And they're they're looking for and what they want to do. And then
we run them through this process. And that is the longest 32nd
intro I've ever given. It's it's necessary. Yeah, I assure you then
it was good because there's a lot of things impact impact inside of
that that and I've been taking notes as you've been speaking and
sharing.
00;23;44;15 - 00;24;09;15
Unknown
So thanks for thanks for sharing the detail. Because it it does it
might feel like it is lengthy, but it tells the story of the things
exactly what we're talking about. You know, I mean, the one thing
the most immediate, the closest thing to the end of, of what you
shared is, you know, the choices that you're making and how it
shifts in the master and in trigonometry.
00;24;09;18 - 00;24;28;05
Unknown
I had to think twice about the because that's exactly what occurs.
I think, you know, the top three things that occur when, when the
longer you're in and the closer you are to a goal. In this case,
let's say retirement at 20, there's a lot of contemplation goes on.
It's probably preset as a baseline of what you expect to do
right.
00;24;28;05 - 00;24;53;03
Unknown
At 20 I'm going to get out, you know, not 21, not 1920, not 23
unless things happen. And so certain things and it seems in your
experience, something happened to where it the options that were
weighed brought more value than, than what you were considering. I
mean, it's no joke. It was what, 13 years after that expectation.
So it's not like it was hasty.
00;24;53;05 - 00;25;14;03
Unknown
It may have felt that way, but it does. It does play a part in how
challenging it can be when somebody's contemplating, how do I go
from where I've been for so long to something new and what
influences me to get away from that? Is somebody going to validate
how I'm feeling and then pull me away from what I've been doing, or
somebody's going to give me a reason to continue on?
00;25;14;06 - 00;25;37;28
Unknown
Yeah. And and I really love that part because it does express some
of the things that I think we should dive into is, you know, how
how we're making decisions and what are the influences from a
personal level, because even early on, you coming back from
training, I'm sure your wife wasn't expecting at dinner for you to
share that you wanted to go last.
00;25;38;01 - 00;26;02;26
Unknown
Yeah. Versus go right or go straight or whatever it is you can
compare it to. So let's start with that a little bit. Discussing
with family how important is it in anything that we're doing. So I
had this conversation with our fellows a lot. Most things in the
Army you don't have much of a choice out, right? You maybe get to
re-enlist and say, hey, you know, I want to go to this.
00;26;02;28 - 00;26;22;12
Unknown
You know, I want to go to Europe. I want to you know, go to a
specific unit or whatnot. But typically speaking, you march in
order, you act on those orders. And so there's not a lot of choice
that happens, but there are those kind of pivotal moments of all I
do. I stay in the CMOs.
00;26;22;14 - 00;26;42;09
Unknown
Am I going to go to 20, you know, you know, it's kind of that ten
year mark that I think most veterans kind of look at. It really
kind of. The three decision points are after your first enlistment
at the ten year mark and then at the 20 year mark, and those are
the times that you really need to have those conversations, with
the family and say, hey, where are we at?
00;26;42;13 - 00;27;01;16
Unknown
Right. Is this going to be a good decision for the kids? Is it
going to be is this the right decision for what we're going to do?
Is this right for me and my career? You know, I had that
opportunity to go to Australia, but I had actually had that
opportunity a few years before that to go compete for that, for
that slot.
00;27;01;19 - 00;27;20;07
Unknown
And we sat down with a, with a big family decision. And my daughter
was just starting kind of her high school years, and she was super
involved in a bunch of sports and, a bunch of academic stuff. And
she was doing really well. And, we had to make that decision. Is
this the right time for the family?
00;27;20;09 - 00;27;41;22
Unknown
I do remember my son advocating for us to go, and we're sitting at
the table and he goes, I just want to put this out there. If we go
to Australia, I'm the one with the accent. I just laugh and my wife
goes, well, it kind of seals the deal for me or that girl. But but
perfect. So you know, and that was tough, right?
00;27;41;22 - 00;28;11;16
Unknown
That, that was, that was a unique opportunity to take the family
and and and and take them overseas. And we just made that decision
as a family that it just was not right. The it wasn't the right
call. And ultimately it, it, it it it worked out. You know, I got
the opportunity to do it later. There's a really cool process in
the Army that, if you were kids are in college and you are
overseas, the Army will put them on TDY once a year and bring them
out for a spring break.
00;28;11;16 - 00;28;30;08
Unknown
So you got to bring both kids out to Australia, and they got to
experience it. And so we didn't we didn't really lose out on
anything in the end. But at the same time, it it wouldn't have it
wouldn't have had the same opportunities for my daughter and my
son. If we would have uprooted them in the middle of, of high
school.
00;28;30;08 - 00;28;45;14
Unknown
And that's a big one. Can I hear that from from guys all the time,
fellows, I should say, coming through the program. Hey, you know,
where is it that you want to live in, like, well, you know, I've
got kids in high school, and I just don't think it's the right
thing to to to uproot them in the middle of it.
00;28;45;16 - 00;29;09;07
Unknown
It's a valid decision on the enlisted side, I think especially with
special operations, you got a little bit more control of of your
assignments and you can kind of if you plan it the right way, you
can you can set yourself up in a position that's going to do that
for the officers. What you once you leave company command, it's a
two year rotation.
00;29;09;09 - 00;29;30;21
Unknown
You just go on staff position, the staff position, the staff
position. And that's that's disruptive for the family, particularly
in those teenage years. And so I get a lot of the fellows that when
I say, hey, what's driving this decision to get out? And they're
like, it's it's family. Right. It's it's been around the kids being
being an active part of my family.
00;29;30;24 - 00;29;57;10
Unknown
And I get that. We were reflecting on this a while back. There was
a three year period back when I was back on the SF team, three
years in a row. I was home less than 80 days per year, and we
figured it out. The longest I was home, the longest I spent the
same or the longest I spent in my bed, was 21 days in three
years.
00;29;57;12 - 00;30;23;26
Unknown
And then that. That's rough, right? You got deployments, you got
training cycles, you got red cycle task, and you got all these
different things that you have to do. And the whole time your,
your, your spouse is essentially a single parent and your kids are
living without either mom or dad. And so when you get the
opportunity to involve your family, I think it's one of the most
important things that you can do, because it's not just you.
00;30;23;29 - 00;30;43;18
Unknown
I mean, if you're single guy, single guy or gal and live, you live
your life, take whatever assignment you know you can get. But if
there's a family involved, there's a lot more decisions that have
to be made. And one of the things that I talk about with the
fellows, you know, we'll get people like, hey, my kids are in high
school, but I ended up getting this job, you know, two states
away.
00;30;43;18 - 00;31;06;20
Unknown
And so, you know, it's a great job. It pays a lot. It's doing what
I want to do. I'm so used to being gone from the family. You know,
we're used to it, and I. What I tell them is, every other time
you've been away from your family, it has been an army decision or
a military decision to take you there.
00;31;06;22 - 00;31;27;15
Unknown
You are now choosing to be away from your family, and you're going
to do it. And so is your family. And I really want you to ponder
that. And I got to be honest, eight out of ten come back and say,
yeah, we had a talk and there's just not the right choice. We're
going to find something different.
00;31;27;18 - 00;31;50;09
Unknown
And I think that is I think that is the right call. Now for some
families it works. But I've just seen it. I've seen it go bad too
many times in the military. I've seen it go bad too many times from
this position that if your family isn't at least an equal part of
that equation, it's it's probably not the right decision.
00;31;50;11 - 00;32;12;02
Unknown
Strong point. Because even if it were not the military, if you
think about what separation brings and distance brings in any movie
you watch, there's a there's a hardship that occurs and then
there's an evolution of thought. I would imagine everybody's going
through it, whether they acknowledge it or not, or understand it to
be what it is. The distance creates.
00;32;12;02 - 00;32;44;07
Unknown
Now, the opportunity for individual growth versus with your partner
or the family and your perspective starts to shift. And so if it
becomes a norm, like a habit being developed, you start to
understand what independence really feels like. And you do things
on your own and it draws you further away. And I think that's the
oversimplifying it. I think that that includes some of the
complications to where trusting in advocacy, trusting in opinions,
trusting in validation.
00;32;44;10 - 00;33;03;14
Unknown
And we always say, you have a buddy. What better one to have than
your family to be able to talk about the things that you're going
to decide in the planning phase? Because what you described, I was
just imagining the similarities. Since we're talking about
transition, the similarities of what we already recognize, what
you're used to is planning.
00;33;03;14 - 00;33;28;20
Unknown
We're planning for an an active or an event. And what do you do?
You go find some opinions, you know, what are we going to do? How
are we going to do it. And you start to develop the the
contingencies around those things. So what because of where you are
and your experience is the role that you're holding and some of the
the advice and things that you share with others to consider.
00;33;28;22 - 00;34;06;11
Unknown
What's the emphasis on planning and the similarities between what
they've been doing as a service member and what is necessary to
plan for? Typically, it's just an event, you know, we can call it
deployment, another, choice that they're going to have to make
because they're going to go do something different. What's the
emphasis on planning? I think it's the the single biggest,
emphasis, is planning out what that future needs to look like, you
know, veterans who, who don't do a plan, who don't do the research,
who don't figure out what it what they want to do, what value
they're going to find in that role.
00;34;06;11 - 00;34;29;11
Unknown
And they just take a first job because they need one. We know the
stats on that, right? The average veteran goes for 2 or 3 jobs in 2
or 3 years because they just can't sort that out. And so our whole
thought process is, hey, we're going to take your last year in the
military and we're going to help you figure out exactly what that
plan needs to look like.
00;34;29;11 - 00;35;06;18
Unknown
And we we focus on three main areas. Where do you want to live
functionally, what do you want to do and then what industry
ultimately organization do you want to do. That functional area.
And if you start that way and work your way down it it tends to
work out and those things go hand in hand. Right? So if you tell
me, hey, my sole desire and life is to be a rocket scientist, but
all of my family living in Sandpoint, Idaho, hey, man, nobody's
building rockets in Sandpoint, so we either need to figure out how
we're going to make you the very first fully remote rocket
scientist.
00;35;06;20 - 00;35;27;08
Unknown
Or we need to figure out functionally a different area that you
need to go down. So what is the priority and what is what is your
your your main planning factor? And if it's to be in a geographic
location, great. Then let's figure out functionally what do you
want to do that is available in that area, what industries are
available in that area, and then put a plan in place to achieve
it.
00;35;27;11 - 00;36;03;23
Unknown
And so starting a year out and going through a whole process of of
figuring out who you are, what motivates you, what strengths you
have, what experiences you're going to bring to a role, what what
is going to, you know, be a passion project for you and then
refining that down tends to work out our stats are quite a bit
stronger than that then that we what we're seeing is that most of
our fellows stay in that role for two years and then promote either
within the organization or promote within that functional area
out.
00;36;03;26 - 00;36;25;26
Unknown
So they're making they're making a, choice to leave that specific
role because of growth and not because this I don't like this
culture. I don't like this company. I don't like what I'm doing.
But it's because they have we have developed a plan and then
enacted that plan over a years long period to make sure that it's
the right choices like that.
00;36;25;28 - 00;36;59;23
Unknown
And and you brought it up. Excuse me. So where do you want to live?
The function that you want, and then the organization and the
people you want to surround yourself with. That's how tough is
that? To get them to understand what that looks like. If all
they've known, or at least in the most recent. I mean, you talked
about a year taking their year and then kind of using that as the,
the catalyst for, for these things to understand who I work with is
important, where work is important, what steps do you take to help
them understand to be able to get that?
00;36;59;25 - 00;37;20;01
Unknown
That's a great question. You know, we talk about the importance of
networking, and we kind of reevaluated this over the last year or
so. And, you know, we tell people your network is going and is
going to get you your job, right. Something like 85% of all
professional jobs, I'm sorry, 95% of all professional jobs happen
because of networking.
00;37;20;03 - 00;37;42;19
Unknown
So blanket online applications or resume submissions result in
like, you know, a 5% chance of your first interview and then it
goes downhill from there. And if you talk to people that that's all
they're doing, they'll say, oh, I've submitted 100 applications.
I've only got, you know, 3 or 5 interviews. Well, yeah, because it
doesn't really work that way no matter what.
00;37;42;19 - 00;38;07;07
Unknown
Glassdoor and indeed and, and LinkedIn tells you most professional
jobs happen because of networking. So but what is networking.
Right. And when you just tell somebody, hey go networking like oh
okay. What does that mean. Well networking is we start out with,
hey, talk to your friends that have gotten out. Do they like their
jobs? How do their skills translate?
00;38;07;07 - 00;38;27;27
Unknown
Do you know, is it is there you know, how is that organization? How
does it feel culturally and it's cast a wide net. Talk to anyone
and everyone just to figure out what is what is out there. I think
I the Army has 207 roles and then you, you know, multiply it by
that by the number of ranks within that role.
00;38;28;04 - 00;38;49;07
Unknown
But 200 and 207 jobs. That's not a lot. There are thousands of
jobs. It can be very broad or can be very narrow. And so figuring
out what that means, we do a whole series of of webinars and just
intro to the industry where I get people to come in and we talk to
everything from project management and construction, project
management in the defense space.
00;38;49;09 - 00;39;12;08
Unknown
We've got a guy that does risk mitigation or risk management in
commercial insurance. He's like, I was surprised at how well
prepared I was for this role because I've done risk assessments my
entire career. Right. And so now I'm just doing the same thing. I'm
looking at an operation by a company or by, you know, insure a
company.
00;39;12;10 - 00;39;32;00
Unknown
So I start evaluating what those risks are. I've got a matrix that
I put them up against and then I make a decision as to whether or
not it is worthwhile for, you know, this company to insure that
company. And so, it's pretty interesting almost, almost everyone
that applies for the program going to say, what is what do you
think you want to do?
00;39;32;03 - 00;39;55;03
Unknown
And they all say the same two things consulting because that's what
special operators do. You go to a foreign country, you consult with
foreign military or project management because that's the easiest
thing to translate. Hey, I was an astronaut was the first of those
opportunities aren't everything's project management, but the
number of people that actually go into consulting project
management is, is way lower than the near 100% that tell me that's
what they want to do.
00;39;55;06 - 00;40;16;17
Unknown
But it's because we we really introduce them to multiple
opportunities and industries, right? Figuring out functionally what
you want to do and then figuring out the industry. And so, hey,
talk to as many people as you can, have their skills translate. Do
they like the job? Do they like the role? And then as you narrow
down then you want to open it up.
00;40;16;17 - 00;40;38;03
Unknown
So let's take Oracle for example, somebody says, hey, I think I
want to get into business. You know, software sales and Oracle
seems like a really good company. All right. Well, how many people
at Oracle have you spoke with? I haven't okay. How do you know
anything about Oracle? Like. Well, you know, I got on their
website, they've got cool pictures and they, you know, they're
showing all these things.
00;40;38;04 - 00;40;56;29
Unknown
I'm like, yeah, but have you talked to anyone at Oracle like no I'm
like, all right well let's do this. And so I'll jump into my
database and find, you know, the 7 or 8 folks that we have had
hired by Oracle or we'll get on LinkedIn and I'll say, all right,
you know, here's how LinkedIn, this is how you use LinkedIn,
right?
00;40;57;01 - 00;41;18;18
Unknown
Go to an organization, you go to the people, you find the people
that are veterans, and then you start reaching out saying, hey, you
know, I'm a I'm a transition service member. I've been doing this,
I'm super interested in Oracle. Can I get 15 minutes of your time?
And I'm always surprised at the number of people who don't say yes
because it's really low, which is awesome because I think veterans
just want to help veterans.
00;41;18;21 - 00;41;41;22
Unknown
And so now you get somebody that knows what you've gone through,
right? They know what you're currently doing and they're willing to
to give that time and, and be very honest about, you know, the
questions you're going to ask. Okay. What is what is, work life
balance? What is the culture there? You know? And so now you build
up, your information about organization.
00;41;41;24 - 00;42;01;22
Unknown
And then just based off of that, now you can start narrowing that
network into something you want to do. I tell fellows all the time
to the last two questions you should ask in any networking
opportunities. Hey, who else should I be talking to? And will you
connect me? Right. Because I don't I don't know who I should talk
to an oracle, right.
00;42;01;22 - 00;42;18;09
Unknown
I just know Oracle is a great company. They these roles seem to
align with what I want to do. People seem to be happy they're I'm
talking to somebody at logistics or I'm talking to somebody at
marketing. But really I want to get into business development. So
who do I talk to? Oh, I've got a really good buddy over there,
or.
00;42;18;09 - 00;42;35;14
Unknown
Hey, I'm part of this Maven organization. Let me connect you with
them. And that both. Now you've got, you know, this whole audience
of folks that are that are willing to to help you narrow that down.
And the introduction, I think is super important. Right? Because if
you know, you call me and you say, hey, what is life like over at
soda?
00;42;35;14 - 00;42;49;12
Unknown
If I'm like, oh, that's the greatest thing ever. And you and I get
talking, I'm like, Ben, this is somebody I think it would be cool
to work with. I can't bring them on my team. But man, I'd love to
have been building and. And then you hit me up with, who else
should I be talking to? I'm like, well, what do you want to do?
00;42;49;13 - 00;43;05;28
Unknown
You're like, man, I'm all about raising money for a nonprofit.
Okay, let me make a phone call. Right. So now I call and say, hey,
I've been talking to Chris Spencer. This dude is awesome. I would
love to have him on my team. I still have space. But, you know,
what he really wants to do is what you're doing.
00;43;06;00 - 00;43;27;24
Unknown
So now somebody that that that trust you that and you've said, hey,
I've done an evaluation. I think this guy would be perfect. He's
like, what? Yeah, of course I want to talk to him. So now you're a
vetted, asset that can be brought in. And so, man, those those two
questions are so important. Who else should I be talking to?
00;43;27;24 - 00;43;43;25
Unknown
And will you connect me? Right. And networking is like mining,
right? You dig down, you find a little bit of where you find a
vein, you're going to run down that vein, hope and find the
motherload. If it doesn't pan out, you come back up to where you
know you've got something and you start work in the next space.
00;43;43;27 - 00;44;06;12
Unknown
And so the more points of contact you have into an organization,
the better you're going to be able to evaluate. And the more you
have in common with the people you're talking to, the more they're
going to be able to answer questions that make sense to you from
where you're at. And that's what I love about networking is
especially in the veteran communities, you can get some real honest
answers.
00;44;06;15 - 00;44;19;12
Unknown
I've had I've had people that I've talked to him like, well, what
do you what do you think about your job? He goes, this is the worst
place I've ever worked in my life. Like, what are you doing there?
It's like, you know, I signed up for the blood money I've got, you
know, another year so I can keep my bonus.
00;44;19;12 - 00;44;41;14
Unknown
And then as soon as that happens, dude, I'm out of here. I'm like,
what would you recommend for anyone else? No, I would not. This is
miserable. I'm like, okay, so if I get somebody that's interested
in talking to, you know, are you willing to have their conversation
100% right? And that's one point of data, which is why you have to
have a network of people, because you could just have somebody
that's angry and bitter, you know, having a bad day.
00;44;41;17 - 00;44;55;27
Unknown
But if you talk to 4 or 5 people and you're like, hey, this place
sucks, man. They just burn through us. We're cogs in the wheel. And
as soon as we wear out, they just replace us like it's no fun. Or
you talk to people who are like, I love this place. I show up to
work every day.
00;44;55;27 - 00;45;23;02
Unknown
My boss is super cool. I've got a gym that I can go to. You know,
the people are dedicated, they're willing to help, and then you get
4 or 5 people that are telling you the same thing. Well, now you
understand the culture of that organization. And so networking is
is so impactful in finding, you know, hey, what is it that I want
to do functionally and then what organization do I want to do
it.
00;45;23;02 - 00;45;44;16
Unknown
And, and just having as many conversations as possible. Yes,
there's truth in that statement. Josh and I are talking as a result
of networking. So one of our friends, because Doug is a friend, but
he's also a military parent, happens to live in the area. I met up
through somebody else, through another function inside the branch
of service.
00;45;44;16 - 00;46;06;29
Unknown
They, you know, Doug gets introduced to the organization. And then
we had an event and he met you. Introduce me to you. Now we're here
talking. And the trust that comes as a result of that because you
nailed it to trust. I think that's the that's you have to establish
the concrete evidence that you can trust somebody to be able to do
these things.
00;46;06;29 - 00;46;28;27
Unknown
Because advocacy right now, you'd love to help everybody, but not
everybody is ready for help because of what they what they
currently believe and what they're ready to hear and those types of
things we talk the candor that veterans have. Absolutely. Getting
feedback from a veteran is going to help you regardless of how you
feel about it, because it's going to tell you the hard truth or
it's going to tell you something else.
00;46;28;27 - 00;46;54;09
Unknown
Right. And it's it's necessary somewhat of a ramble, the going
going back to the two years things. If we can touch on this real
quick, the expectation setting because there's, there's some some
caveats to the, to the growth that occurs. And then, and then the,
the timeline. And this just happens to, you know, it's not really
arbitrary, but two years and that's somewhat related to service to
where you're going to transition, you're going to pieces, you're
going to get promoted.
00;46;54;12 - 00;47;13;12
Unknown
There's a timeline that correlates to that to where now it's it's
conditions yourself to believe that that equates to success,
because there's some other things that hardships that we we all are
familiar with, the suffering of being into a role in civilian life
and the public and the private sector where we say, oh, it sucks. I
don't want to be here.
00;47;13;15 - 00;47;35;25
Unknown
Well, you're still learning something. And so what I've done is
kind of revealed this, this notion that if it's uncomfortable, I
don't need to stay. And I've been lately just more. So it's like,
well, if you think about what you're learning, if you're within
five years of transition, you're actually understanding what it is
like out here now with that environment.
00;47;35;25 - 00;47;55;21
Unknown
And of course, you don't need to stay, but it is giving you
something to wear. Now you can recognize how to navigate that
because now you're you're collecting what you you had mentioned.
It's one data point, your experience with one leader because you
also mentioned somebody in your story. There's going to be bad
decisions. The chaplain had told you they're still going to make
bad decisions.
00;47;55;21 - 00;48;14;26
Unknown
There's fewer of them. And I think the one thing that we can all
remember is when you're when you are where you end up, just maybe
pull yourself out of that sometimes spontaneous reaction to what
what you're experiencing to realize you're going to get something
from it and you're going to become better for it, you know, because
now you're learning it.
00;48;14;28 - 00;48;34;17
Unknown
So maybe stick around and see what changes, because the other part
is you don't know what other people are going through. And if you
can remember the influence that you have, you can maybe change and
help that person or that team become better. And maybe that's your
purpose because we don't know that. Yeah, you know that. That's
such a good point.
00;48;34;20 - 00;48;57;21
Unknown
You know, on average, you know, veteran, you know, particularly
somebody getting ready to retire, they're going to move into a role
with less authority and responsibility than the one that they had,
right. Brigade commander or squadron commander, you know, what are
they saying? And you're going to take a step back. And there's a
good chance that that person who is your boss doesn't have the
experience that you have in that role.
00;48;57;24 - 00;49;20;02
Unknown
And there is nothing wrong with leading from from where you stand
right leading up that chain of command. And if if you've got a boss
of struggling somebody and you've got to experience that, that you
can help them out, why would you not? Right? I mean, selfishly,
your, your you're making your environment better. I got a better
boss.
00;49;20;02 - 00;49;45;18
Unknown
They know what they're doing better. I can teach them how to you
know, you know, lead through leaders intent or, you know, just
establish a basic, you know, battle rhythm. All these different
things that we learn, is going to make my life easier. More
importantly, you're influencing everyone around you, right? And and
if you can influence one, two levels up, two levels down, left and
right, you just created a much stronger team.
00;49;45;18 - 00;50;08;18
Unknown
That environment that you may not like is probably going to be a
lot better, right? So invest in the role that you're in. And, and
give it as due diligence because there's a very good chance that
you're going to find, that, that what you learn from that position
and what you learn from those experiences is going to set you up
for success.
00;50;08;18 - 00;50;28;15
Unknown
And I promise, you know this. Everyone else knows this. Somebody is
watching. If you're this person's like, well, this sucks. I'm just
going to do my work and punch you out at 5:00. Somebody's watching.
But if somebody goes, hey, we have some legitimate problems and
you're actively working on them, what do you think you could do
from this level?