Apr 21, 2025
Microsoft's MSSA Tech Bootcamp - https://military.microsoft.com/mssa/
Breakline - https://breakline.org/
FourBlock - https://fourblock.org/
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;47;19
Unknown
You're listening to the Oracle Maven podcast, where we bring people
together from the veteran affiliated community to highlight
employees, partners, organizations and those who are continuing the
mission to serve. Welcome to the Maven podcast. I'm your host,
Chris Spencer, and in this episode I'm joined by Howie Chan, Oracle
senior technical program manager and former United States Marine.
His leadership journey, shaped by early family influences and a
strong sense of service, led Howie to graduate from the United
States Naval Academy, where he commissioned into the United States
Marine Corps and spent his entire overseas learning what it truly
takes to lead by example, how he shares valuable lessons on
navigating change, building community, and thinking
strategically
00;00;47;19 - 00;01;09;09
Unknown
about your next steps, especially when transitioning careers from
trust but verify to embracing optimism and knowing when to say no.
How his leadership philosophy puts mission in people first. Coming
to Oracle through Oracle's veteran internship program, known also
as over how he's bringing those same principles to his role, and
we're excited to see what to accomplish next. We have all we need
to become the person we want to be.
00;01;09;09 - 00;01;29;17
Unknown
So let's remember how to connect with others with sincerity and
genuine intent as we continue the mission to serve. Thanks for
listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode, and please remember to
check in on your buddies and family. Howie's contact details in the
podcast description, and you can always find me on LinkedIn. Good
morning Howie. How's it going?
00;01;29;19 - 00;01;49;11
Unknown
Hey, Chris. Pretty good man. How about yourself? Doing all right?
Thanks. Yep. It's, the beginning of the week, and it's early. Not
real early, but early enough to get to get us a good baseline to
have a great conversation. Sure. Now, I appreciate your time. Happy
to do this. Yeah. No. Likewise. And, you know, for everybody
listening.
00;01;49;11 - 00;02;08;22
Unknown
You know, how he's how he joined us through one of our hiring
channels. And I'll let him elaborate on those things and, and talk
about how it is that we came to meet and what we're talking about
today. But before we get there, Howie, tell us a little bit about
you. So, yeah, my name is Howie Chan. I was born in the South.
00;02;08;29 - 00;02;27;29
Unknown
I grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee, and most of my life in
Huntsville, Alabama. From there, I went to the U.S. Naval Academy
and commissioned into the US Marine Corps as a communications and
signals officer. Over the last 70 years in capacity. So my entire
career overseas, three and half years in Asia, three and half years
in the Middle East.
00;02;28;01 - 00;02;51;18
Unknown
I got the Marine Corps at the end of 2022 and took a travel
sabbatical in 2023, traveling the globe from there. Joined Oracle,
through Oracle's veteran internship program, over last year. So
grateful to the Lord for opened a door to be able to do a current
internship to a full time offer. But, that's essentially how I got
here, was through Oracle's veteran internship program.
00;02;51;20 - 00;03;25;03
Unknown
Got it. No. It's great. So Knoxville, Was it was what was growing
up in Knoxville like for you, you know, how did that lead to
Huntsville? Yeah. Candidly, you know, I was I was I was on there
Knoxville til I was about seven years old. I've one older brother
and my dad being a medical doctor, he had a really crazy work
schedule and so when my brother and in middle school, my dad was on
called time or, like, on duty all the time, and my brother
mentioned, like he wanted to see my dad were often and we wanted to
be doing more family things.
00;03;25;03 - 00;03;45;26
Unknown
And so my dad made the decision to move our family from Knoxville,
Tennessee down to Huntsville, Alabama for better work life fit, and
he was able to find that. And that's how we end up moving from
Knoxville to Huntsville. But but yeah, I've been in the South once
all my life that that makes that so. So about how old were you when
when you went to Huntsville.
00;03;45;28 - 00;04;16;14
Unknown
That was that. 77878778. Yeah. How was how was that transition from
Knoxville to Huntsville as far as friends and going to school and
things like that? I think naturally, you know, when you're in a new
environment, it's always a challenge initially up front, but you're
able to make things work. But, after getting acquainted, I was able
to make new friends and build a community and then take those
lessons over time as we gotten older and take it to our life
today.
00;04;16;17 - 00;04;38;21
Unknown
That's you could transplant that and building a community, adapting
basically as an eight year old, the same way as you can do as an 18
year old, in a 28 year old and so we'll, we'll come back to that
part because it's we got to talk about that. Right. As a as as the
veteran affiliated community. We have to talk about that.
00;04;38;24 - 00;04;59;10
Unknown
So growing up, what made you go to the Naval Academy? What kind of
get us to the part of where you're saying, this is what I want to
do, no less? Definitely a fair question. Actually, I would say, you
know, look at my family. We come from a family of service. I
actually had two cousins who were in the military commission
through the U.S. Naval Academy.
00;04;59;12 - 00;05;20;13
Unknown
Cousin John, in 1999, you know, joined the nuclear submarine force.
And my cousin Mickey, who commission in 2005 joined NSW in the
Naval Special Warfare. As part of the teams, the Navy Seal teams,
for about 20 years. But they were positive influences in my life
and I think we can all relate to that one family friend or uncle
relative who joined the military.
00;05;20;15 - 00;05;39;12
Unknown
And yeah, I mean, ideally positive influences. But you know, for
the fact for my two cousins, they were excellent role models for
me. And so whenever they had their spring break or fall break, they
would come visit my family, either in Huntsville, Alabama or
Knoxville at that time. And yeah, I always loved them. And I view
them as like older brothers and mentors.
00;05;39;12 - 00;06;03;02
Unknown
And when I came to, actually thinking about the service, the I just
reached out to them and they, they said like, hey, you know, you're
looking for a great education. You're also looking to also serve
the country and give back. Why not go for like the service
academies, whether it's the Naval Camera, West Point. And so
looking at the different branches, you know, I definitely wanted to
other join either the Navy or the Marine Corps.
00;06;03;02 - 00;06;25;06
Unknown
And so the Naval Academy, it made the most sense for me. What year
was what year is that when you went to the Naval Academy? I was in
the Naval Academy from 2012 to May 2016. Yeah, it's you have 2012
to 2016. What kind of prep does it take for someone to make that
choice? How early do you need to think about that and land on a
path that gets you ready?
00;06;25;09 - 00;06;47;16
Unknown
I would say maybe a year and a half to two years and advance. So I
think for those who are considering the service academy path,
whether they're in high school or even a few years removed from
high school because the, the, the maximum age you can join is 23
years old or so. They do accept prior listed folks to actually
commission through the service academies until 23 years old.
00;06;47;18 - 00;07;06;18
Unknown
Yeah, I would recommend roughly about a year and a half to two
years, I think, definitely assessing where you are at physically.
There's also a component where besides completing the college
application to other than Naval County, West Point or other
academies, you also need a a political nomination that's from your
congressman, your senator or the vice president president.
00;07;06;21 - 00;07;24;15
Unknown
And so they have their own each of those different buckets, they
all have their own timelines roughly. They're similar, but they can
be nuanced differently based on their own, timelines. But you also
have to go through on vetting process to get a nomination so you
can complete all the, you know, college applications. You can
complete the physical tests.
00;07;24;15 - 00;07;50;26
Unknown
There's also there's a physical test component as well too. You can
do all those things, but you don't have a political nomination,
whether it's your senator or your congressman or vice president,
you're not allowed to, receive an appointment to attend one of
those academies when you're in. For those that aren't quite
familiar with how how the assignment works, because some might hear
you say, Naval Academy and I was assigned and then the Marine Corps
walk us through the process of where you end up, what branch
holistically.
00;07;50;26 - 00;08;07;05
Unknown
I mean, the U.S. AmeriCorps is part of a Department of Navy,
whether we'd like to admit that or not, but we are. But the Naval
Academy is the commissioning source, both for the Navy and the
Marine Corps. If you're choosing the service academy as the route
of commissioning, roughly, you start with a class of 1200 your
freshman year, a year, like we call it.
00;08;07;05 - 00;08;34;05
Unknown
And by the time you you graduate, your first year or senior year,
there's usually a thousand. And so roughly 75%. So about 750
commissioned US Navy, whereas the other 250, that 25% you
commissioned to US Marine Corps. And so the summer and your senior
year at the Naval Academy is like they like the justification.
Usually there's like an assessment to see like which and validate
like which branch of service you like to be a part of or interested
in.
00;08;34;05 - 00;09;02;07
Unknown
And then based on your academic standings, your performance during
that summer, military training, the summer prior to entering your
senior year, come the mid fall timeframe, that's when you find out
which, branch that you'll be a part of. But for me, I really
gravitate towards the US Marine Corps because being exposed to
highly, qualified senior leaders, and also officers at the least at
the Naval Academy, I was just really drawn to the Marine Corps,
especially just the caliber folks.
00;09;02;14 - 00;09;18;05
Unknown
Their motivation, it was just infectious. And I want to be part of
that environment and be challenged. And, you know, for for me, I
seen these people, what they're doing. I want to join one of the
toughest branches and Marine Corps. It seemed to be a great fit for
me. So it was the people that the calling, the challenges.
00;09;18;07 - 00;09;36;07
Unknown
And I would say those are the two things because of what really
drew me to the Marine Corps. Yeah, yeah. You got did you hear that
cry? Just the battle cry right now while the Marines just
celebrating your choice. The words that you just chose to use for
sure. So what happens after that? So you get now you're in senior
year.
00;09;36;07 - 00;09;57;09
Unknown
You know you're going to the Marines. When do you when do you learn
what your your job, your role will be whether you graduate from the
Naval Academy or or another publicly accredited university, all
Marine Corps officers, they all we all get sent to Quantico,
Virginia at the 26 week program called the Basic School, where we
all learn how to be provisional rifle platoon commanders.
00;09;57;11 - 00;10;26;15
Unknown
And so roughly, that's a six month training pipeline. And by the
last month or two, you have to rack and stack based on the list of
like 26 different places or different job specialties. What we like
to consider. And then based on your academic standings, the ratings
for the Marine Corps change, they kind of went through like a, a
tiered system, like a 1/33, three third, there's a happy quality
spread, but it's fluctuated in terms of based on performance versus
a tiered system to have a quality spread.
00;10;26;15 - 00;10;43;09
Unknown
So someone who's more and more recently and would have a better
understanding. But at the time they did a quality spread for our
class. So what I mean by that is like, let's say that there's a
class of 300. There's like tiered slots. It's like one bucket
number one's for the first 100, second bucket for next, and so
on.
00;10;43;11 - 00;11;00;12
Unknown
They did not want to have particular job specialties to be all
lopsided with all like top performers. Otherwise all the other
molasses and chop specialties were going to be neglected. So they
did a quality spread where, you know, you could be ranked number
one and get your first choice. You'd be ranked number 200 and get
your first choice.
00;11;00;12 - 00;11;21;17
Unknown
You can be like number 300 bomb blast. Let's look at your first
choice as well too. But the point being, though, the intent was to
have a quality spread where you have high performers across all
embassies. So, that was the mindset at that time in 2016 they may
be doing today, I'm not sure, but at that time that we chose for
me, I got my first choice, which was communication signals for
me.
00;11;21;17 - 00;11;40;17
Unknown
My preference is I want to be close to technology. I want to be
close to being platoons of Marines and actually lead based on, you
know, based on leadership development from the Naval Academy and
also from coming from the Bates School in Quantico. And the main
MOS is word you have the opportunity to do that were either two
infantry logistics or communications and signals.
00;11;40;17 - 00;11;58;19
Unknown
And so for me, it was a no brainer to choose one of those three.
And I was able to get my top five choice of the comms signals. And
that's where my journey began. Like it. Were you surprised after
after that you had initial understanding of what? What that what do
we call job classification? MOS yeah, we call them lessons
with.
00;11;58;19 - 00;12;16;21
Unknown
Did anything surprise you once you got into the C and you started
leading the Marines and actually fulfilling the obligations of the
role, any surprises? Oh, man, there's more surprises all the time.
I would say that initially the impression we were going to the
fleet after all this train, it's like, all right, I got all my act
together, all the training.
00;12;16;21 - 00;12;49;01
Unknown
And when you show up to your first unit and mission said you
actually have no idea what you're doing at first. But that's why
you have good NCO, you have good advisors, and you also have good
officers, ideally to come alongside you and walk you through the
process to teach you the process and systems of how the record does
business and the particular with each unit, you know, whether
you're in the Pacific or you're in the West Coast or East Coast,
each unit has their own preference of how they do business, and so
over a period of time, ideally, you'll be able to mold and adapt to
that, to that team and unit, to be
00;12;49;01 - 00;13;09;00
Unknown
able to use your skills that that's been developed to more through
that. And yeah, it's definitely a growing process and learning
process. And, you know, I can definitely say that I learned a lot
of what to do as a leader, what not to do as leader. And and just
have a and in due time, be able to grow my understanding of how the
Marine Corps operates and the bigger picture.
00;13;09;03 - 00;13;39;29
Unknown
Top three lessons learned. What are they who, number wants to trust
but verify? It's a good one. I would say the second one would be
it's okay to say no and learn how to have boundaries to, push back
within reason. And that's a that's a growing skill. Let's continue
that. That's a hard one. But I would say the third one would be
just to have an optimistic attitude because, and just roll with the
punches.
00;13;39;29 - 00;13;58;08
Unknown
So, transmit, verify, learn how to say no. And if there is, I have
enough in the sky too. I think those are those can go a long way.
Yeah, those those are good ones. You have any one cert? Put you on
the spot. You have any one circumstance that where you recall as an
example of any one of those three.
00;13;58;11 - 00;14;13;04
Unknown
Yeah. I would say trust but verify. I mean it is my first unit. I
learned what to do or what not to do it later. I think Trump's a
new lieutenant coming to a unit. There's an expectation that you're
supposed to learn quickly and perform at the same time. You don't
really know anything at the same time.
00;14;13;04 - 00;14;32;08
Unknown
Depending on different units. Sometimes some units are
under-resourced, both manpower and equipment. And so you just have
to learn how to figure it out and you have to work do with what you
had. And so the situation where I was was I didn't have a senior
leader initially. And so I don't rely a lot on a bunch of, of NCOs
along the time process.
00;14;32;08 - 00;14;51;24
Unknown
And of course, and with rank and experience, there are things that
people are aware of, things aren't, they're not aware of. And so I
worked with what I had at the time. I was really grateful to those
engineers because they understood where I was coming from. And they
also at the same time. And so it was like a balance between
trusting them but also verifying with them.
00;14;51;27 - 00;15;12;18
Unknown
But I'm very grateful to them from those experiences because we
went through a lot together. And whether it's unit inspections
coming down from Marine Corps to just supporting different military
exercises across the region, I would say that first unit, during
that first term was pivotal in terms of development as an officer,
in terms of, yeah, trusting but verify and learning how to have an
optimistic attitude.
00;15;12;18 - 00;15;30;11
Unknown
And it's it's such a lot of tough situations and also learn how to
say no. Which it actually helped me out later down the road towards
my second to our lot. So I think often back about that first tour,
a lot has been pivotal to to follow up. So that so where was your
first assignment? I wanted to travel and see the world.
00;15;30;16 - 00;16;09;28
Unknown
And so I made a point. Prior to go to Okinawa, Japan was my first
choice for the Marine Corps. And I would say that that first unit
was with the Marine Wing, Communication Squadron 18. That's based
over on Camp Foster and Okinawa, Japan. Basically, their main
mission is to provide communications for first marine aircraft,
weighing whether it's with tilt rotor aircraft such as Beat Ospreys
or skids like Cobras, Vipers, whatnot, or depending on which unit,
fixed wings the power of you're attached to the units, but
holistically is to provide communication support for the aircraft
component of the Marine Corps and the commanding general who
supports, first of all, so that was the
00;16;09;28 - 00;16;41;24
Unknown
main mission, part of that mission to after I got experience, I've
able to commander and eventually pivoted to me becoming an
independent S6 or independent, I guess. Trusted advisor,
communications advisor for the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit,
which is, for a continuous deployed unit over in the Pacific that
provides a variety of mission profiles for our nation, whether it's
from humanitarian assistance and disaster relief to our partners in
region or providing a lot of power combat power capabilities for
our nation and our partner allies within region as well, too, in
terms of deterrence.
00;16;41;27 - 00;17;02;14
Unknown
But those were the main to mission to the surface. MEU but
holistically, that's where I was. So Okinawa, Japan Brewing
Communication Squadron 18, eventually, after getting some
experience, then pushed a three person view which postured me up
for later going down to Middle East later. But I loved every bit of
it. I love, I love traveling, and I definitely was able to travel
and see the world during that time.
00;17;02;20 - 00;17;27;14
Unknown
So learning from your senior and CEOs, maybe some junior NCOs and
how Marines are sometimes any pranks shenanigans that you remember
when they know that we have a new lieutenant coming in, we're going
to show them some ropes, but no, actually had a good bunch. I
definitely had to get my employee to our pranks on me. I think it
takes time to build rapport.
00;17;27;14 - 00;17;48;06
Unknown
And I think that what really built rapport between myself and them
and trust me, and going to continuous requests, just they knew the
pressure that I was going through. And you sure that giant cared
for their well-being? And even though I may have been during my
initial my first time being a leader at that situation, they were
very forgiving.
00;17;48;08 - 00;18;05;24
Unknown
Like, okay, I know they recognize that how he's going through some
pressures will work through it, but over a period of time over that
year and a half, we really trust each other a lot. You know,
they've been never back, you know, just to help me out. You know,
as engineers, the main four three Mandela Kowski, Seth Low, Chad
Allen, very grateful to them.
00;18;05;26 - 00;18;26;01
Unknown
There were corporals and sergeants at the time, E45 but, they were
definitely the glue for that. And also my platoon sergeant, Dajuan
Phillips and Solis and others. But, they were pivotal in terms of,
you know, if I didn't have them. Oh my gosh, I would not have been
successful at all. So I'm a product of their success.
00;18;26;03 - 00;18;48;26
Unknown
Yeah. That's that's good answer. Support. No better friend. Right.
90% 90%. But I know there's something in there that you don't let
you leave it out. So we'll just leave it at though because you're,
you're you're doing the right thing. So your second, second, duty
station was that, that was in Bahrain in the Middle Eastern.
00;18;48;28 - 00;19;07;26
Unknown
I knew that, my time being a camo comms and signal officer that do
you location preferences in terms of going to Middle East and being
attached? Was pretty limited, but at the time, moving from Japan to
the Middle East, my three options were Saudi Arabia, the UAE and
Bahrain. I put that in and that particular preference order.
00;19;07;29 - 00;19;25;07
Unknown
And I came Bahrain, which candidly at the time I was pretty
ignorant. I was like, I don't even know where the country Bahrain
sat. I know what Saudi Arabia is. I've heard of the UAE, I know
where Bahrain is. And so after going some googling everything to
figure out of all small, tiny kingdom just to the east of Saudi
Arabia, but I am going to Bahrain.
00;19;25;07 - 00;19;54;07
Unknown
And as Palmer sent G6 or Marine Central Command G essentially in
that role, I was providing it communication support for all Marine
Corps forces across the entire Middle East region. So whether it's
supporting SPE, Mac, Taft, special purpose Mac tasks, or supporting
any marine as you come into theater, what is the 22nd you 26, me or
whoever? There's a joint Naval Marine Corps command called Task
Force 51 five or Task Force 51 from the Navy, joint with a fifth
Marine Expeditionary gave them Marine Corps.
00;19;54;10 - 00;20;18;05
Unknown
But essentially, these folks would take control of this joint, any
Marine Corps forces that come in the region. So I was there from
2020 to 2022. That was a zone challenge by itself. But definitely
my first four experience definitely helped posture me to be better
equipped of how to support that mission. And I also had, some great
teammates as well too, in order to make that successful.
00;20;18;05 - 00;20;36;07
Unknown
But the Middle East Centcom was my second choice, and I was able to
continue my passion of traveling, seeing the world and doing so in
the Middle East. Nice. Yeah, that's that's a good it's a good mix.
I mean, it's, it's a long time though. So that's where with two you
said three and two. Yeah. Three and two.
00;20;36;07 - 00;20;54;17
Unknown
So I was about three and a half. Yeah. December 2017 one to August
2020 was for Japan. And then from August 2022 till November 2022,
that was, in the Middle East. Got it. What are some of the some of
the key things that you learned now that you had the what's lengthy
times in each of those locations, but different experiences, I'm
sure.
00;20;54;17 - 00;21;18;10
Unknown
So what what was the beginning of where you started to recognize
whether or not you were going to continue on reenlist or, choose to
transition out? You know, every servicemember goes through that
transition work, whether you're to your first enlistment after your
fourth four years, if you're a junior military officer, in terms of
initial five years or so, I think we all have that
conversation.
00;21;18;13 - 00;21;33;03
Unknown
And so, you know, I recognize that people come from different
units, right? Some of them may have a really positive experience,
some you really have a really crappy experience. And so that really
dictates and shapes people's decision process of whether they want
to get the heck out as soon as possible or they really love it. And
if we continue it.
00;21;33;04 - 00;21;52;01
Unknown
So I do recognize that it's going to vary for different people. But
I enjoyed my time as much as it was challenging. And I made the
decision point. Probably as I was moving to the Middle East, I was
thinking about myself. Do I want to go back to Okinawa to become a
company commander and join, third Marine Division in terms of that
track, you know, career trajectory?
00;21;52;01 - 00;22;14;23
Unknown
Or should I pivot and just pivot to the private sector and I was
leaning probably a 6040 split initially, 60% up getting out, 40%
staying in, while I was in Middle East, mainly because I had some
family circumstances. My family, and something I didn't mention
earlier is that after my, you know, after I went to college, my
folks became empty nesters and moved from Alabama to
California.
00;22;14;26 - 00;22;38;05
Unknown
And so since I have been away from home for over almost five years
now, it was five years, it was time for me just to come back home
and be closer to family. And so the decision in terms of being
closer to family and also looking at the career trajectory too
candidly to see a 4 to 5 in terms of within the community, some
loved it, some maturity, and we're just okay with it.
00;22;38;07 - 00;22;56;25
Unknown
And I, I recognize that maybe that, my perspective is limited
compared to other people's experiences, but at least with my
experience in my circle, it was a confirmation for me. Just talking
with them candidly from like 1 to 1 about their career trajectory,
is that just hearing their stories and the challenges? It was for
me, it was time for me just to move on based on this
conversation.
00;22;56;25 - 00;23;15;19
Unknown
So. So yeah, that's a long way of me of saying that the decision
process to move out was initially was moving to the Middle East,
and at the same time, while I was finishing my second tour, I was
already having conversations with different folks, both who are
thinking about those who stayed in in terms of understand why they
wanted to.
00;23;15;19 - 00;23;38;01
Unknown
And I started talking to other, folks who recently transition.
We're going through a transition themselves, or those who are two
years removed as well, too, because I want to have a holistic
approach of what people's experiences were in the transition,
because it's definitely not easy, and everyone's transition is very
personal, and it's gonna look very different. That talk.
00;23;38;04 - 00;23;59;28
Unknown
So let's can we circle around that topic for a little bit. So about
how long from your termination date or separation date did you
start that process. Was it as you were going to Bahrain or early
while you were there? Discharge the question of how long did it
take me? I would say it took roughly about one year.
00;24;00;02 - 00;24;23;04
Unknown
I made is when I got back from leave in October 2021, while still
station and the Middle East, I made the decision thought process,
thought process to actually leave. I started the administration
process at least formally lay my battalion commander know and
others a decision thought process. And so that way once giving due
diligence to the unit to make sure there's like unit continuity, to
make sure that our operations are impeded.
00;24;23;04 - 00;24;46;13
Unknown
Based on my decision to leave, it also allowed both from the senior
advisors and also the officer corps to do in terms of manpower
projections, in terms of once you onboard the next batch or crew
for to replace myself. But, yeah, I started and verbalized that
conversation in October 2021, went through the admin process. By
the summer 2022, I think it was like June 2022.
00;24;46;13 - 00;25;16;12
Unknown
That's when I got official resignation papers were approved. And I
basically, because I really enjoyed my time in the Middle East as I
just to write it out until my replacement came in around the late
fall of 2022. Got it. Yes. And so I'm asking because when we get
when we get this far in a conversation with, well, recent service
members who transition to veteran status, it's always an
interesting like it's not it's not even a discussion.
00;25;16;12 - 00;25;53;08
Unknown
It's just to understand the timelines because you all have
branches, different branches. Consider the available resources at
certain times. Right. So that, you know, generally speaking, a
sweeping statement is officers probably get a little bit more
information earlier when the longer you're in two years out, you
start processing or thinking about the idea to where you can have
an opportunity to process and then, you know, enlisted maybe a year
out and, you know, so it's in a in a timeline of what you're
indicating, a five years in a first term, first enlistment.
00;25;53;10 - 00;26;13;20
Unknown
What what is the typical timelines that people start to consider
these things? Because what we're finding, again, anecdotal data,
what we're finding is planning is sometimes more prominently last
minute and last minute in the sense of within a year they there's a
decision to make, you know, I don't want to do this. I want to do
something else.
00;26;13;20 - 00;26;36;11
Unknown
Or for whatever reason is the reasons matter less. It's just when
you when you land on that. So looking at the priorities and the
process, you mentioned that you started to network and and ask
people both in who who are thinking about it what their experiences
were, that, is that a common thing? Do you think that somebody like
you is planning to get out?
00;26;36;11 - 00;26;57;29
Unknown
And then you started to ask around to, to get information that
would help you with that decision, or is that something that you
found yourself to be different in that sense than others? I think
the general principles are the same. I think that the way I like to
view it, and I think what makes it different, it's just like the
types of people that you're with in terms of where they are
severely.
00;26;58;04 - 00;27;16;14
Unknown
Well, I don't say severely, but it greatly will affect your
decision process. So that's why I, I would encourage all veterans,
regardless whether you're also in listen to really because you
don't know what you know, to really encourage to you to reach out
to other military veterans across the community to find out their
journey from the military to where they are today, regardless of
industry.
00;27;16;16 - 00;27;33;10
Unknown
You know, the example I like to think about is like concentric
circles, right? So in your inner core, you got yourself in a dead
center. And then as you as you branch out, you have your family
friends, right? Like, oh, how did you know Uncle Joe or my neighbor
Bob or whoever? How did we get to do our job?
00;27;33;10 - 00;27;52;10
Unknown
They are today, right? And as you're expanding from your family,
friends, then you're going to your former teammates as your
buddies, whether they finish your enlistment or they finish their
off for, you know, a term, you asked about their process and then
from there, whether you went to college or you didn't. But if
there's any alumni that you know of, those are folks that can reach
out.
00;27;52;10 - 00;28;11;12
Unknown
And eventually when you get to the outer rings of the concentric
circle, that's using LinkedIn is a fantastic tool. In order to help
narrow your search of reaching out and connecting to different
veterans and to reach out to them at different seasons of whenever
they transition. That's true. That's a good point. And that that's
a good plan, you know, to define.
00;28;11;15 - 00;28;36;00
Unknown
And then ironic that you say circle, find who within your circle
and how that that circle is expansive and there's layers to the
circles and the relationships you have and those you serve with,
those you maybe didn't. And then you use tools to be able to extend
that process, like LinkedIn or social media in some capacity, where
you can be intentional about looking for specific individuals that
fit mostly with what you know.
00;28;36;03 - 00;29;11;26
Unknown
Because like you mentioned, you don't know what you don't know.
Sometimes you know what you don't know. And that that's part of the
process is to get to that part. Oh, I didn't think about that. Let
me go pursue that. So when it when it comes to the process, at
which point did you start to feel like you had a good grip on the
outside world, the civilian world in where to go and how to
position yourself so others can see you for you, not the uniform
you were wearing or the rank that you had, I think is going to
differ based on folks.
00;29;11;26 - 00;29;44;17
Unknown
I would say for me, I'd say it's taken me probably a little over a
year, year and a half. But I'm still continue to learn that right?
Because, you know, it is a major lifestyle change from the military
to the corporate sector and the civilian life. But if I had to say
that, you know, if I encourage veterans regardless, like those
still in the service to think about getting out, those are
transitioning or or those who Rafe transition out, it is, I think,
a framework to encourage those folks would be the one is to define
what your successes.
00;29;44;19 - 00;30;11;03
Unknown
And it's okay not to know initially what your success is. But I
think in this discover self discovery process, as you reach out to
different veterans and, teammates, former teammates, you're able to
get a picture in terms of what you like and what you don't like.
And I think it's the first time in your life where the Army or
Marine Corps or Uncle Sam does have to tell you, hey, you're going
to go to your second choice duty station or your last duty past
duty station of choice.
00;30;11;06 - 00;30;35;19
Unknown
So I would say that, so you're all thinking about this is to think
about the location, think about, you know, the salary, what you're
expecting post military and even the type of role and function you
might be part of. And it's okay to be really honest, to say to
yourself that, hey, if the Marine Corps or Army or whoever plays me
into a job function like our MOS, I really didn't want to do, it's
okay to say that you didn't want to do it, and you can play it,
pivot.
00;30;35;27 - 00;31;08;24
Unknown
And whatever your goal you're think of to pivot from what you did
to Army or Marine Corps to a completely different function.
Whatever you see, the gap is, if any of you need to go to school,
which you can definitely leverage your GI Bill. And there are
plenty of like, fantastic nonprofit organizations that help both
officers and enlisted, especially the enlisted, there are resources
such as like, you know, services schools, which is a nonprofit
program that helps, veterans, leverage your GI Bill and pivot and
serve as advisors and get help them matriculate to the school of
their dreams, regardless of rank.
00;31;08;27 - 00;31;30;03
Unknown
And they potentially pair you with veterans who've gone through it
themselves. So, whether it's parents with enlisted, with enlisted
or officer, with officer or so on, so on, that's a fantastic
resource that veterans can leverage to use to bridge that gap. And
they see an interesting gap between their skills and education to
their dream job. But yeah, I would say, number one, define your
success.
00;31;30;03 - 00;31;46;24
Unknown
And within that success, even if you don't know if that's okay, but
just start having conversations with veterans about, you know, what
they do, how they get to where they are today. And in those
conversations, you're going to be, you know, you'll soon find out
in terms of what you're okay with and what you're not okay
with.
00;31;46;27 - 00;32;03;24
Unknown
Like for me is I know I want to be in the West Coast because my
family's in the West Coast. And this time frame, you know, I talk
to different veterans in different industries, whether it's
consulting, finance, technology and consulting and finance live.
But something that I do not want to do with the long hours of any
100 hour work weeks.
00;32;03;24 - 00;32;24;05
Unknown
While the salary may be amazing, but the work life fit is horrible.
And so the reason why I got out is so that I can be closer to
family. And so, you know, for me, and because my interest in
technology intrinsically, the technology sector seem to be the best
fit, and there are different programs I can help you pivot in the
tech space.
00;32;24;05 - 00;32;48;11
Unknown
I mean, obviously, Oracle's then our internship program is a
fantastic program. I'm a product of that today. For those who
aren't familiar with that program or Oracle Veteran Internship
program, essentially it's a 12 week internship program to provide
corporate experiences and exposure to these transition military
veterans, transition veterans, and military spouses. And I would
say that the program offers to do three things.
00;32;48;14 - 00;33;13;10
Unknown
The ones that validate what you're interested in in tech space. So
you're building your industry interest. Second is that you're
valuing the job function or role. So I know that a lot of veterans
tend to gravitate towards project management. As a go to, as you go
to job. But some folks may not enjoy project management. And so but
then if you look at the list of what it has to offer, there's so
many different roles in the tech space.
00;33;13;12 - 00;33;30;24
Unknown
You do sales for the Customer Success Post-sales, but there's so
many different job functions that veterans can do and can succeed
and do. So with that 12 week internship program, you're able to
validate whether this is a particular job role and function that
you want to do. And the last aspect is what's not guaranteed. But
there's a potential for employment depending on that.
00;33;30;24 - 00;34;04;16
Unknown
There is headcount available for that. But there are resources out
there to help their, transition into the next, next step. But for
those who are interested in technology and interested and having a
corporate experience, in a well-organized way, I would definitely
strongly encourage Oracle's veteran internship program. There's
also a newer, initiative called Cloud Launch for new grads, that's
open to both military spouses and veterans, where if if veterans
are interested in pursuing a career in sales engineering or cloud
architects, it's called cloud launch.
00;34;04;19 - 00;34;29;02
Unknown
That's something that's, that's that's a particular path that folks
can consider. And I believe there's also something within that
suite. I'm not too familiar with that. But from I understand, I
think that's what does a lot of, veteran hire initiatives as well,
too. But at least for those who are interested in Oracle, you can
either choose the Purple Veteran Internship program, which is the
cloud launch, and you could have you can also choose and that me
and regardless whether yeah, I mean those are just fantastic
resources you can consider.
00;34;29;02 - 00;34;52;19
Unknown
But there's plenty of options out there. Let me pause right there,
Chris. I know there was a lot on one take. Let me know what
percentiles I can try to address now. That's good. You just saved
me a lot of words because you covered the things that that I was
hoping we we could discuss. But going back to one of the options,
because I'm curious when when you were thinking about getting out,
did you know about skill bridge?
00;34;52;22 - 00;35;21;19
Unknown
I did know about Skill Bridge, and I would definitely encourage
veterans to definitely leverage that. For me, in terms of my
billet, I wasn't really afforded the opportunity to have skill
bridge, mainly because it's a high priority billet in terms of I
was a part of. And so and it's a lot harder to transition overseas
and that I say it's doable for I mean it's I'm sure it's doable for
those overseas, but there's a lot more challenging to transition
from overseas rather than back in Conus in the United States,
continental U.S., actually U.S. soil.
00;35;21;24 - 00;35;43;27
Unknown
I would definitely leverage skill bridge if possible, but I
recognize that it's unit dependent. So whether you're a baton
commander or there needs to be a unit, I mean, it's I'm content on
their approval. But if you can, I would strongly, strongly advocate
for all veterans, regardless of rank after enlisted to leverage
that, because that's a great first taste, corporate sector and kind
of the three things I talked about.
00;35;43;27 - 00;36;02;24
Unknown
Right. This is a particular entry you want to be a part of. This is
a it's a job function that you want to do. And it can be a
potential source of employment. Yes. And you landed on the
distinction as well as the benefit and that that's part of some of
the challenges that service members face is being exposed to those
opportunities.
00;36;02;24 - 00;36;23;15
Unknown
So I'm very grateful you brought them up because it does matter.
The most important component you talked about is when you start to
identify your successes, you're going to be able to now relate to
opportunities that can continue, that allow you to continue on your
successes and that does include the research, the networking, the
conversations you have with others so you can learn about those
things that you weren't aware of.
00;36;23;15 - 00;36;44;21
Unknown
And skill bridge sometimes seems to be something that not every
person, every service member is made aware of because of one thing
or the other. And so with this conversation and conversations like
these, we hope to bring more awareness to those serving so they
know what their options include. It's case they're not getting a
complete download of of what's available to them.
00;36;44;28 - 00;37;05;28
Unknown
So thanks for sharing those things. And how how did you end up
hearing about Oracle Veteran Internship Program over it? It kind of
goes back to number one and talked about earlier about your network
and reaching out. So I went through LinkedIn and I just started
looking at veterans in different parts of the industry. And at
least in terms of defining my success, I knew I wanted to be in the
industry of technology.
00;37;06;01 - 00;37;23;13
Unknown
And so I started reaching out to different veterans on LinkedIn and
just asking for, hey, whether they were in person, I would be for a
cup of coffee, or whether it's just the nature of being so spread
out across the states. She's asking for a 15 20 minute chats over
zoom or whatever, and some would answer some or not respond.
00;37;23;13 - 00;37;48;07
Unknown
You get a mixed bag of responses. But for those who did respond,
there was one veteran who responded and he mentioned to me about
open. And so I first heard about Covid, probably, ooh, I think
that's the fall of 2023. That's when I first heard about that. I
actually applied. And for the December winter cohort, I did not get
accepted, but I was not deterred by that.
00;37;48;11 - 00;38;07;10
Unknown
So I made a stronger application come the second round. And I was
fortunate enough to get in. But it's a long way of me of saying I,
through a LinkedIn outreach to another veteran, ever veteran,
patient forward. That's how I was able to find that open. Yeah, no
thanks for sharing that. And there's a couple anomalies inside that
before we, transition to close, it's, calling out the distinction
between a networking.
00;38;07;10 - 00;38;28;07
Unknown
You know, you can get your networking game, improve your networking
game, you know, if it's important. Networking and splitting hairs
on this. Networking is networking where you're just reaching out
and you're trying to establish a basis of connections. And I think
that's the distinction. And if we kind of split hairs on words,
what you really trying to do is make connections through
networking.
00;38;28;10 - 00;38;54;11
Unknown
Right? So networking is a process in my mind. Connections is the
intended outcome. I want to connect with people that are in a space
that I want to get to, or in this case, using a channel like
LinkedIn or social media or some other avenue that's available to
you, email, text buddies, you know, the buddy system. There's a
pass through at some point to where a tool like in this case
LinkedIn, becomes almost critical because not everybody uses
it.
00;38;54;11 - 00;39;16;05
Unknown
Some people will know to set it up, but they don't. As you may have
experienced, some of those non-response is include people. Just
don't look at it. It's not meaning they're ignoring the messages
that come in, but, like anything else, they could also be
overwhelmed with the number of questions they get. But it is
important that we remember to reach out to those to give people an
opportunity to pay it forward.
00;39;16;05 - 00;39;35;16
Unknown
Because I love that you said that. Not everybody knows how. Like,
what can I do? So as we transition and close out, what are some of
the things that you want to leave with the listeners of, you know,
not only what you going to do, but what what do you what advice do
you give others to to help them understand what they can do to
help?
00;39;35;21 - 00;39;56;09
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's a good reminder to ourselves that
just remember, like we used to be in those other people's shoes
initially in terms of getting out sometimes, like whether you're a
decade out in terms of the transition or maybe five years or maybe
four, maybe just recently. Just remember, in terms of where the
other people are coming from, in terms of whether it's a transition
and they're going to ask questions.
00;39;56;12 - 00;40;13;02
Unknown
And of course, you know, we may be a little impatient in terms of
the way they ask questions, maybe a little too direct. There's a
there's in the corporate past that we needed. But, you know, we
need people where they are. And so I would encourage for folks just
to continue to pay it forward, because I would like to think that
for where we are today, it's a product.
00;40;13;02 - 00;40;26;18
Unknown
We're a product of other people's input that are paying it forward
are those who took the time to mentor us, but it's going to pay
for, I mean, that's what we're here for. That's what you sign up
for in terms of the services to, you know, so it's a is a community
service and so committed to the team.
00;40;26;23 - 00;40;46;10
Unknown
And so just because we need a uniform, yes. There's an element of
we have left the service. But it doesn't really we don't really
need it because intrinsically it's but if you've been a part of it,
give up our last word. So if you do pay it forward for at least for
those who got out, continue to pay it forward and then for those
who are transitioning, yeah, I would say classically.
00;40;46;13 - 00;41;09;20
Unknown
Yeah. Number one, define your success and be honest yourself. It's
okay not to know. And the second thing, for those who are thinking
about the practicality out number two is to talk with veterans and
different in the transition, especially from. So that way you get a
holistic approach of being informed of what it's actually like. So
I would say those who recently got out, those were a few years out
and those who got out like a ten, like a decade or so more.
00;41;09;20 - 00;41;29;16
Unknown
So that way you can have a holistic approach. And the third aspect
would just be continue to network and start with the concentric
circle model of like start with the family, friends, your former
teammates, college alumni that applies to you, and going through at
least an outreach. So that way you can help validate, the industry
and your own success from those conversations.
00;41;29;18 - 00;42;06;21
Unknown
Yeah. It's solid, that sound I will sprinkle in. The three lessons
learned also can be universally applicable to this, right? So trust
but verify when people are coming to you and they're asking some
things and hey, I did this. You trust that they they have because
this leads to the next thing. It's okay to sometimes say no and
push back on people to do a little bit more diligent effort into
preparing, because if you don't do anything and you ask somebody
for time, it can lead to being overwhelmed towards, that's maybe
why you're not getting the help and support that you expect when
people are capable of paying it forward, but sometimes give you
the
00;42;06;21 - 00;42;26;10
Unknown
impression that they're not because, you know, and that's the last
thing is optimistic attitude you expressed that you talked about in
2023. You tried to apply or you applied. Try to get in through all
of it because you were wanting to now experience what it was going
to be able to provide, and you didn't get the results that you had
hoped for.
00;42;26;10 - 00;42;43;19
Unknown
So you get back at it and you came back, and now here you are. So
great lessons to be learned, great advice, how that you're given.
Thank you so much for making time today. Appreciate. You know thank
you Chris. And yeah, for those I mean I'm not sure everyone dropped
my LinkedIn when I happy to connect with other veterans in thermite
LinkedIn and more than happy to help out.
00;42;43;21 - 00;42;58;16
Unknown
Okay. Got it. Yeah. So, how we how he's information contact details
will be in the podcast description. All right. Howie, appreciate
you. Thank you so much. Thanks, Chris. Cardi one keep moving
forward.